Is this a behaviour problem with my 4.5 y old?

[DS90]

Hi, everyone. First, please excuse me for my english skills (not a native speaker). I have a 4,5y old boy, who is in general very emotional. Our problem has to do with him being very reactive when he feels he is being provoced (intentionally or not) by other children. He often raises his tone towards them and unfortunately often gets physical and slaps them. Is this a normal behavior and normal reaction for children his age? How can we help them work through his emotions in a healthy way-for him and for the others involved? We speak with him, try to explain, but we haven't so far got the desired result. He usually gets triggered when someone grabs something from his hands, says something bad/annoying/provocative to him. He sometimes gets angry when he thinks someone is watching him in a bad way or is laughing at him. When he gets angry at someone in certain situation , he also starts behaving bad toward other children , because he is so out of control. What happened today was a girl his age wanted a toy (belonging to neither of them) and tried to take it from him while he was playing, the children then started grabbing and pulling the toy, the girl pushed my son, he first got upset and then ran to her to hit her. Of course the girls parents started a fight with us. They blamed my kid and found nothing wrong with how their child behaved. The girl and my boy know each other for 2 years, they go to the same kindergarten and this is not the first situation like this with her. Most of the times she provoces him, it seems to me intentionally, and he reacts. Of course I am fully aware that my son shouldn't hit, but the parents only see it as his fault, the find nothing troubling with their daughter 's bahvior. Am I really in the wrong about this particular situation, thinking that my kid wasn't the one who started it and he shouldn't take all the blame? I would really want to hear you opinions on this, and most importantly how can I help my child process his emotions. I an trying to explain to him to not pay attention and play with children who are bugging him on purpose. I shoul say that it happens for him to hit me ot his father when he doesn't get his way, not every time, but when he is overwhelmed - In the last coupel ot weeks we see improvement with this. I will be very thankfull for any opinions, advice and information.

My DD is 4, and we do know some kids who hit.

It’s awful. It’s not ok for kids to hurt their peers, whatever the context.

Other kids should not be subject to violence because of a squabble.

Every time it happens you need to be taking him out of the situation and making sure he knows why.

No, it isn’t normal at this age.

What consequences do you put in place for this? Are you in the UK? Does he attend nursery? What do they say?

He is still very young, and unable to regulate his emotions yet so lashes out, like alot of children his age so i would say normal. Just keep continually reminding him to use kind hands, he can't hit people etc. You'll get sick of the sound of your own voice but it sinks in eventually!

It sounds like your doing the right thing, it's exhausting but it will pay off eventually. And it's great he's stopped hitting you and your husband, hopefully this will follow on for other children too

We always talk to him, explain that he should use his words and not hands, usually we use time out, we recently started using the 1-2-3 technik, if we are on the playground we pull him aside immediately, talk to him and listen to him -try to understand what triggered him and why he reacted the way he did, sometimes but not always we take him home. I know of course he shouldn't hit and I am not trying to make excuses for him, but as I wrote, he is usually triggered, provoced by other child. The situation that I wrote about happend yesterday, my kid was minding his own business, the girl/his age/ came and took a toy out of his hands, than pushed my kid because he didn't want to give it to her and that's when my son hit her. It is not normal for him to hit at this age-many people say so, but in this exact situation what would actually be a normal reaction from him? I am genuinely wondering. My boy goes to kindergarten, unfortunately together with the girl in question. He has some discipline issues there, but most of the kids actually do - they had two very young teachers, this was both their first teaching job, then they both resigned, there were many other teacher afterwards, each coming to fill in for a few days, now they have again a young teacher (only one teacher) who has no previous experience and can't control everyday situations, the kids in general don't listen to her at all. I am truly worried that this could lead to my boy being friendles, the girls parent's and I had a fight yesterday, of courses they are worried about their child, but they were (in my opinion) really mean and fully blame my child, not seeing that the girl is either intentionally annoying him, or just doesnt seems to have any child appropriate common sense. In the past there were not one or two situation that she was rude - both verbally and physically towards my son. Unfortunately her parents don't seem to find any trouble with how she behaves, there were times when the parents weren't even present to certain situations and I cant imagine myself going to complain because a 3 or 4 year ols slapped my son because he rode his bike faster than her - just an example from my my sons and this girls playing together experience.

When (my) DS1 was little, there were kids who antagonised him (and he them). It turns out that those children had additional needs, and so did DS1. They were attracted to each other because they were reactive.

You will need to work closely with the school/kindergarten to monitor your son’s progress. He might need additional support at school with his behaviour. There is nothing you can do about the other children.

Unfortunately as soon as your child hits, he puts himself in the wrong no matter what has happened to lead up to that point. Have you tried leaving the playground and going straight home in these circumstances? Your son needs an immediate consequence.

We have, we do this sometimes, not always. He is now always acting this way, but he happens often enough to get me worried. I don't want him to grow aggressive, angry or anything like that, of course, and I definitely dont want him to have no friends. We try to avoid this particular child but every single day both families are ot the playground, we dont have much choice where we can take our kid after kindergarten to play. There are some children that my boy have absolutely no problem playing with, they get along perfectly well, the problem is that some ot them have closer friends and when they play with them, they often exclude my son an he gets angry and/ or sad and starts to behave poorly - not hitting, but telling things like i won't ne your friend anymore, getting nervous. I really feel helpless, hopeless, very sad and desperate not knowing how to help and apperantly how to discipline my child.

Also in such situations I genuinely don't know what to tell him and teach him :( , I tell him dont hit or don't hit back, but what should a 4 year old do? Just nothing? Letting other kids bug him, take stuff from him or intentionally try to annoy and make him angry? Is my kid really a bad kid and bully for behaving this way? I truly feel this is my fault, even though I don't know what I and his dad did wrong and I don't know how to improve the situation

At 4.5 they shouldn't be hitting regularly

ProfessorPeppy raises an interesting point.

Something else to look at is how you / your dh view the world. i am thinking more your partner
The language you use is in interesting "he was provoked!" Also the "getting bad looks" is an unusual thing to anger over.
For me, Both children wanted to play with a toy... they tussled and he hit someone.

At 4.5 they shouldn't be hitting.
Get an adult, count backward from 5 whatever works...

It’s possible that the talking, listening, understanding etc is not clear enough and you just need to repeat the same stock phrase each time and remove your child immediately. If there is no obvious consequence for hitting then he is effectively getting away with it. I would go for “NO we do not hit” and remove from the park/equipment/whatever immediately. The discussing/listening etc can come later if needed. At 4 I tell mine that they should come and tel mummy or daddy or a teacher if somebody has upset them. I also model phrases for them to try to resolve things themselves like if someone snatches “I was playing with that, can I have it back please and then we can take turns” but if he isn’t yet ready for this then just tell him to come and tell a grown up if he is upset about something.

Sounds a bit like my son who's on the waiting list for an ASD assessment. His social communication needs were our first flag that something wasn't working for him. He has no idea how to process stuff that's happening to him that he has no control over. I'm not saying your son has ASD but there might be something else at play here.

In the meantime I wouldn't have kids taking toys off my son while he was playing with them. You should advocate for him in situations like the one with the girl and tell her she can't have it until your son is finished. Taking turns is a skill that needs to be taught. Telling one kid they need to share all the time is not how to do it

Other kids will always do ‘nasty’ stuff. 4 year olds have terrible social skills

You are taking other kids’ behaviour very personally. There will always be poor behaviour. The only thing you can do is to remove your own DS from situations where possible, and repeat ‘we do not hit so we’re going home’.

Like I said previously, your DS’s behaviour might or might not be developmentally appropriate. Work with kindergarten to establish extra help with emotions and behaviour, if needed.

If it's a frequent issue with this particular child then I would anticipate the problem and stick closely to your DS's side when they are playing with/near each other. He shouldn't be hitting but it's very frustrating for him having a toy snatched from his hands and he needs support in the moment to stop this escalating. If she comes up to him you can then help him whilst modelling the language he can use "No, DS is playing with this right now, you can play when he's finished". Identify any and all triggers for your DS and try to intercept before it gets to the point of him hitting or hurting. In time he needs to learn to work through these issues himself but right now you need to jump in wherever possible to avoid him hurting others.

By "being provoked" I mean he doesn't just go around the block hitting children for no reason at all. By bad looks I mean a child looking at him in a certain way (unfortunately I am not able to use one particular word in english to explain what I mean), leaving my child frustrated and feeling vulnerable or picked on or made fun of. I try to explain the situation to the best of my ability with expressions and words I am familiar with (not native speaker). Thankful for each and every opinion here!

I few things - try to intervene before situation - so if watching and child trying to snatch - 'X is using that please wait I will make sure you have a turn in 1 minute' give it a bit of time and tell him they will have a turn soon, then count to 5 before taking it from him if he doesn't hand it over himself. Exception to the rule being if it's his comforter, other than that to a certain extent if both want something they have to turn take.

Hitting occurs - lift and remove calmly, place down away from situation, say that hands are not for hitting and that is not okay. Ask him to return when he is calm and ready to say sorry and let him know a consequence if he tries to hit X again (no tv rest of day, we will leave, I will just remove X toy for the day) then stick to the consequence if nessesary. Don't engage in back and forth convo if there's been a hit just get the point across that -it's not ok - he needs to calm and apologise before he can play again - if he does it again X will happen.

Hopefully in time it will rectify, but I for me having known snatchy children I do intervene before the situation occurs whilst also getting my child to then share after X time (which helps them see it's not the end of the world a toy being given away)

Thank yo for your opinion, of course We don't stay passive and watch while the kids are on the playground, but we are trying to give him a bit freedom and not stand 2 meter next to him. We are actually the parent couple on the block that try to watch our kid as closely as possible . The other girl's parents leave her way out of sight most of the time and there were a couple of situations that she pushed my kid or was just verbally mean to him and the parents were never there to see what happened, unfortunately there were also situations when they did witness and blamed my boy even though they saw their daughter bugged him. I for sure understand their point of view, triyng to protect their child, but when the roles are reversed and my kid started an issue I always tell him that ot was wrogn for someone to do something, but he shouldn't have did something in the first place himself

I don't think it is unusual for a 4yr old to hit if another child snatches a toy and pushes them. He is young and it's hard for him to regulate his emotions. You know that this is an issue for him and that this particular girl has a habit of snatching/ pushing so you need to stay close and watch them so you can intervene. You also need to model him telling you when another child is unkind to him.

Can you avoid playing out at the same time at this girl, she doesn't sound very nice and it might just be easier that way. Alternatively play with him so you are always on hand. Teach him what to say if someone tries to take what he's playing with 'Hey I'm playing with that' and what to do next if they don't give it back - ie tell an adult. I think by 4.5 it's unusual to still be so reactive, especially hitting parents, most kids here are at school at that age and although still young and learning social skills I would wonder if there were any SEN.

I think he sounds like a perfectly normal 4 year old! They're not known for their emotional regulation at this age and are still learning how to behave. Just keep reinforcing that hurting someone isn't nice, and to come to you if another child is being mean to him.

Your posts sound like he's reacting to another child being physical with him rather than hitting others for no reason. Again, very normal.

This is what we advise him, if there is any isuue to come tell us or the teacher in the kindergarten. His first reaction to what happened eas go get upset and cry. When we saw what happened both I and his dad went towards the kids trying to separate him. Sadly as he was walking towards us sobbing, he turned around to het his revenge. He didn't hit her back right away if this matteres at all , I think he tried to do what he was told so many times, but couldn't

Thank you, I am literally almost criying out of relief l, seeing someone finds my kid not a bad kid, At home he is smiley Bright, funny, loving boy -not al of the time, but most. He has the occasional tantrums which are not often in my opinion, he tries to avoid putting his toys away or folding his clothes ot something like that, which I think applies to all children this age

Just to say, I have 4 adult children who would have reacted the same way at that age. As they grew and matured, they learned better ways of dealing with it, as did the majority of their peers.

With the provocation point, my child was similar. We would practice “what do you do if someone snatches? Tell Mummy!” What do you do if someone calls you names? Tell mummy/tell the teacher!” before going into nursery/ playground and it worked quite quickly. Then if there are incidents you can say “you don’t hit etc you tell mummy” which hopefully gets home to the other child’s parents that yours was being provoked.