In the trenches with my tricky 4 yo. Please help.

[NoName4]

I’m absolutely in a rut with parenting my 4 year old and I need some advice about what to do. I’m open to any suggestions - books, courses, whatever.

As a bit of background, he’s not a particularly easy going child. His need for attention is absolutely insatiable. He wants me to play elaborate games that only he is allowed to make up. I’ve tried playing for 30 minutes then moving away and I’ve tried setting a timer. He just will not have it. He follows me round the house screaming and crying if I dare leave him alone. He can keep this up for hours. He’s also extremely whingey. There are some days where every single thing is whinged. He comes across as very lazy and entitled and won’t do anything for himself. ‘Mummy get me a driiiiiiiink’, ‘mummy pass me that toyyyy’, ‘mummy get me a jumperrrr’ usually with ‘I’m too tirrrredddd’ at the end. He talks and interrupts all the time and cannot stand DH and I having a conversation that he isn’t involved in. He is permanently in my personal space trying to intimidate me. He has nothing nice to say about DH or I and regularly declares how little he loves us.

Basically, he comes across as negative, rude and moody. I love the bones of him but he is hard work.

I used to be a ‘good parent’. I was strict, probably the strictest of any of my friends. DS gives so little sh*ts about boundaries I could never really slip. But I was also really fair and responsive. I never shouted.

But I’m just losing the will with 4 years of this (he was a v difficult baby and never grew out of it). I’ve become short and snappy with him. I openly compare him to his easy going cousins who play independently. I tell him to go away and leave me alone. I shouted at him tonight that I’ve never met such a whiney child before and I can’t stand it.

I need to do better but I’m just in such a funk. I’ve booked a GP appointment as I feel so depressed by it all. I’ve emailed the health visitor as well for advice. I’d appreciate any other suggestions.

Do you have any other children? How is he at school / nursery?

@EmilyDickinson

Yeah I do. I have a 13 month old. Attitude was bad before their arrival but probably worsened after it.

He goes to pre school 3 days per week 8:45-3. He’s quite emotional and hard work there. He tends to dominate the other children a bit. But they don’t have issue with his behaviour as such. He’s not ‘naughty’, just ‘highly strung’ as his teacher described him at parents evening.

Is he in nursery? What do they say his behaviour is like? If he isn’t, can you send him? That way you get a break, which is what it sounds like you need.
Perhaps he is also bored, is he enrolled in classes eg gymnastics, trampolining, football, swim? Things that burn off energy and steam and are a means for him to channel his enthusiasm for play.
It sounds tough, but at 4 years old your child is not being negative on purpose. I’m glad you’re seeking help for the way you feel. You also need to carve out time for you, can your DH take him out for a couple hours each week to give you time?

Every time he moans or asks for something in a rude way ignore him until he asks nicely , tell him at the start that's what you are going to do. If he keeps it up after that then set an appropriate sanction.
I think you've got to stop allowing him to behave badly ( I know easier said than done )
Maybe a reward chart for asking nicely etc ? X

I’d agree with activities that burn off energy.

Also, it sounds to me like he’s trying to get and keep your attention as much as possible and maybe feels a bit insecure. This fits with him interrupting conversations with your DH (he doesn’t want your attention on your DH rather than him) and the fact that he’s got worse since his sibling was born.

I would try and set up some quality one to one time with both you and your DH. It would be great if your DH could start a regular activity with him to strengthen their bond. Four is a great age to start with lots of sports and you could both emphasise that it’s an activity for big boys and not the baby.

Then switch it up at a different point in the weekend where your DH takes the baby and you go and do something exciting with your 4 year old.

I found that my children often became quite clingy when a younger sibling was born and tackled it with a combination of reassurance and making time with my DH seem exciting

I’ve been doing this for well over a year. Every time he whinges for something I say ‘does that need to be whinged for…shall we try asking again?’. Sometimes he’ll then buck his ideas up but often he’ll just throw himself on the floor shouting ‘I CANT ASK NICELY’.

Its hard to know how to sanction this stuff. I’ve always just gone with natural consequences: you don’t get something if it’s whinged. It’s just soul destroying we haven’t slipped on this once in an over a year and it’s still going on. My MIL thinks I should start taking his toys away but I’m just not sure that sits right with me.

Thanks. Yes he does need exercising ++ and he needs lots of stimulation to stay happy.

I think I need to get ‘he’s not being negative on purpose’ tattooed onto my head. It’s just so so hard not to take it personally.

It's very difficult OP, his behaviour is telling you something I am sure .. could you try saying ' I can see you are feeling ....'
I think it's ok to sanction if he is continuing with behaviour you don't like .. this could be why it's continuing? Could you try saying to him " please stop ...... and if not you will lose ..... could be TV , a toy for a short time , go to room for a short time etc . Always follow through see if this gets the msg across

This kind of bottomless pit for parental attention is quite common in neurodivergent kids. Just to keep an eye out. Not that that helps you right now but just that you're not alone

Rather than concentrating on sanctions for behaviour you don’t like try rewarding behaviour that you want.

You could do this in a fun way by getting your DH to play along.

Eg get your DH to ask for pudding in a really whiney way. Then act shocked, really ham it up for your 4 year old and say, “DH that is not how we ask for things in this family!” Heavy sigh. “Don’t you know how to ask for things politely? Really DH if you can’t behave better then (whatever sanction you might use for DS)”

At this point your DS should hopefully be agog.

Then, “Maybe DS could help you.” “DS could you teach DH how to ask politely? What do you think he should say?” Your DS does actually know how to be polite but maybe feels like he gets more attention for whinging. Remember negative attention is still attention. Hopefully DS will chime in with the right answer. Children that age absolutely love feeling superior to adults.

Then, absolutely praise DS to the skies. You cannot go overboard here. DH should look chastened and humbled.

Repeat until DS is the family expert on asking politely. Enroll his help in teaching the baby. Get him to ask for things in shops because he’s so good at it. Let him hear you telling other people how wonderful he is and how proud you are of him.

It so hard to remember this mantra in the moment isn’t it!
I think telling him how it makes you feel when he is upsetting you is important. In a calm way - I feel sad when you say that, please don’t talk like that to Mummy.
If he is 4, he’ll soon be at school and maybe he is really really ready for that stimulation and environment. I always remember my mum saying she spoke to the GP about my brother’s behaviour and the GP said - he is probably quite bright and really bored and you just need to keep him as busy as possible. It was true!

He's doing it because it works. Even if it works less than half the time, say, that's enough of a gamble for him to keep whinging in the hope you'll cave.

Tell him you're done with it. Make him a simple picture timetable for the day and have cards for "play with mummy" in half hour slots. You decide how many are in one day and what time they're at. On a weekend day when you can be more relaxed, give him say 2 or 3 of these cards and let him choose when he uses them.

Then ignore any whinging outside of these times. You can explain that you can do other activities together: baking, crafts, go to the park, watch a movie. But the elaborate games are for card time on the timetable.

Ignore whining of any sort completely. Don't give in. It's going to get worse before it gets better and you're going to have to suffer through it now for everyone's future benefit.

Just commenting as I am going through the exact same thing with my 4 year old DD. So glad to know im not alone in it as other children her age seem much more mellow. It sounds awful to say but she drains the life out of me. Constant constant need to be kept entertained. Won't do anything she's asked. Finding it really hard. I have considered ASD or ADHD for a while due to other things also but not really sure.

He sounds like he might be neurodiverse.
This doesn't mean he gets to behave like this just that if he is it needs to be handled differently.
I would do one of the decent online tests for ASD and ADHD.