Normal for 5yo

[GingerHat]

we are currently away with our 5yo DS and 2yo and I'm struggling with DS' behaviour at the moment.

He's a lovely boy but I'm really struggling sometimes and don't know what the best approach is. He doesn't listen/do as he is told, can be very argumentative and gets very easily frustrated to the point where he shouts/kicks/throws things if he feels frustrated. He struggles to sit at the table to eat and is constantly touching things, especially things that don't belong to him.

For example, he wanted a toy from the resort shop and we said no. He throws a tantrum. We calmly acknowledge he is upset but then carry on as normal. He is then berating me constantly for the next hour, telling me how awful and mean I am
for not buying him this toy. I try and ignore it but it results in bad behaviour like in the resort buffet walking off from our table repeatedly, telling me he isn't going to listen to me etc. at the buffet I told him not to touch the food and I would get things for him but he ends up sticking his fingers in one of the puddings because he wanted to see what it was. At the dinner table he constantly gets up and walks off. Today he was running off getting new drinks even though we didn't need them (we let him do this as I felt like it was a pick your battles moment). he then ended up trying to move some chairs around our table. We stopped him but telling him to stop never works - we physically moved the chair and when he started to kick off I said we would take away the small toy he had with him until the next day. He tried opening someone else's car door as we were walking down the street. he also talks very loudly and I am constantly reminding him not to shout when he talks.

I am genuinely at a loss. I am firm and follow through with consequences but I just feel like I'm constantly telling him no don't touch, don't do that, don't put that in your mouth etc. I'm hovering over him all the time because I feel if I turn my back for one second he'll do something he shouldn't (eg today he used a whole pack of plasters on a soft toy). He wails and whines a lot which I find very draining.

I know he's only 5 but I had hoped some of his behaviour would get better over time.

where am I going wrong? What can I do better?

Should also add my other question: is this behaviour normal for a 5yo? I ask because I don't see other kids behaviour the same way at the buffet/at the resort and am wondering if perhaps there is something else at play. I have raised it with the reception teacher (he's like this at home too) and she says he's really well behaved!

If you find out, let me know?! Mine is very similar especially when tired/ hungry/ a bit overwhelmed.

i try so hard to have firm boundaries but all I do is shout/ tell him off and frankly, it’s miserable for both of us.

I’ve been trying something different atm, he responds much better to praise. It makes me sound like a twat but whenever he isn’t being awful I really make sure I praise him - and tell him what behaviour I’m proud of him for. It’s not a panacea but I feel like I get more good behaviour. The other I realised with mine that was despite excellent language he wasn’t managing to tell me what he needed which was sometimes at the root of bad behaviour. Like demanding new toys all the flipping time and loosing it when i said no - he was jealous that I loved his brother more and me saying yes to a toy was that I loved him from his perspective!? It made perfect sense to him…

My DC is about to turn 6 and is similar. Some days (/weeks!) are utterly draining for both myself and DH. However, she's not like this at school, so I know it's not that she doesn't know how to behave or can't do it! Very frustrating sometimes. I think a lot of it is just testing boundaries and sort of science experiments really, like "I will do this and see what happens". She's not a good eater either. We've never been on a holiday resort or anywhere where we'd eat at a buffet every night, Im sure she'd behave the same and it wouldn't be enjoyable for any of us. We tend to do self-catering trips and if we eat out it's at lunch time as she is usually better behaved then than evening when she's tired.

Hi @GingerHat this sounds quite tough. How is your 2 year old? In terms of behaviour?

I once read something that basically said sometimes when keep telling our children not to do x y z they often tune us out. Have you tried telling him what he can do instead ie instead of please don’t move the chairs. How about can you tuck this chair in for us. Redirecting the energy.
not don’t touch this food- but maybe can you get a plate and a spoon.

its hard and maybe you’ve already tried this but it made me think when you said you feel you’re hovering over him I wonder if he too feels a bit stifled

He has had 2,5 terms of being good in school, it’s not half term and he is like a coiled spring.
Be consistent, make sure that NO is one of the most frequent words you use and consequences every time/praise for good behavior. He will get it.

Holidays for kids aren't always as fun as you'd think. A fresh load of rules that make them feel they don't have much independence.

Let him have a good run around and free play on a beach, park, forest etc. When you're somewhere like the buffet, give him jobs like getting you cutlery, helping you to choose what to have etc. Praise good behavior.

Sounds like a normal 5yo. School takes it out of them, they just want to let rip a bit.

I would say this sounds fairly normal (which is a spectrum - so some kids will be very well behaved and others much more difficult, but all normal still). Just keep being firm, i have found my DD’s behaviour got a bit worse in her first year of school as she was copying/absorbing behaviour from the other kids.

It’s hard to know without seeing it and holiday isn’t a normal place so behaviour isn’t normal.

I find all these things help both my children on holiday (oldest possibly ND).

• set expectations before every event. Teachers do this all the time. Say were on the way to the buffet, can you remember how we behave in the buffet? The praise remembering. You’re aiming for 3 positive interactions for every negative
• set your expectations. If your 5 year old can’t sit without getting distracted then bring appropriate distraction eg magazine and pencils. Involve him in the conversation. If he gets bored play games like cheese or chocolate.
• If they need lots of exercise and solid sleep, most children do, then make sure they get it. If you keep them up late, let them eat load of sugar then don’t be surprised and disappointed with them if they act out.
• Be consistent. This is so important they need to know where they stand. If I had a £ for the number of times I’ve seen one parent at school say if you do that another time…only to say it again and not enforce the consequence. It’s so destabilising for the child.
• Make sure they know the plan for the day. A visual time table is good.

The book how to talk so little children listen is really good.

This sounds like my son. No amount of firm boundaries/ setting expectations makes a difference. He's on the waiting list for an autism assessment. We have other things that have led to that though - big meltdowns, a bit of stimming etc.

But I'm not sure what might be the autism and what is just standard / bad behaviour. Difficult to know where to maintain firmness / be understanding.

Thank you all for your responses and advice. Today was a particularly challenging day as we went to the local market where he was refusing to hold my hand and was touching everything. We set out the rules - stay close to mum/dad, hold my hand and don't touch things on the market stalls but it went in one ear and out the other. I think he just can't help himself, he just has ants in his pants. He was also trying to do handstands at lunch on the bench and got very very upset when we were firm with him about it. In the end I had to hold him to tightly to get him to stop. The crayons/fidget toys I bought were ignored.

I am very consistent with consequences but it seems to set him off even more and his behaviour gets even worse when he doesn't get his own way. For example, he had a toy car and started rolling it across a glass window. I told him not to do that and sit down but then a fly was on the window and he hit the window with his car. I admit I got cross with him and told him no, he must not hit things, especially not windows and i took the car away and said he could have it back if could hold my hand until we got back tk the bus. He did manage to listen then but only because he wanted his car back and there was a lot of whingeing.

just this morning has been absolutely exhausting. I'm on edge all the time when I'm with him, worried if he's going to hurt himself or break something or spill something.

2 yo old DD is completely different in terms of behaviour- she listens, dresses herself, mild mannered etc and has been since she was a baby. I'm very careful to show them both with the same love/affection but DS can be a bit boisterous with her so I do tell him off more than her on balance.

@Sunnysummer24 I am intrigued, what is this game of cheese and chocolate ?

the late nights aren't helping at all. We try to get them to bed for 8 but they aren't sleeping until 9:30 and up again at 7 - no naps either! They are shattered by the end of the day but seem to be anti sleep!

I agree with pp that holidays can be harder for kids than being at home. It sounds like you're doing all the right things OP. Hopefully things will improve when he's back home, in his normal routine and getting a bit more sleep.

You've just described my son, same age as well. Also just back from holiday and sounds like the week we had. I've just put it down to immaturity and his personality. He's not always that bad but really has his days where he wont listen to one simple thing. Perfect at school so saves all the good stuff for us! We're just trying to ignore a lot of stuff now, if he isn't putting himself or anyone else in danger we are trying to let things go