Is this normal for 3.5 year old?

[Cornflakes44]

I'm starting to worry about my 3.5 year old. She is very hyperactive. Literally can't sit still. We can't do anything like go to a cafe, or theatre or cinema. Even at home she's crawling all over the couch. Unless she's watching tv then she'll be like a zombie and won't respond to anything (we limit it). She only has a few things she'll eat, she won't do anything for more than a minute, then she's on to the next thing. She always has something in her mouth, usually her fingers, she chews and licks everything. Hayes having her hair brushed, washed. Doesn't like loud noise. My partner thinks she's ADHD. I think it's a bit early to tell but I'm really starting to worry. She was all over the place this weekend. Has anyone had similar with a toddler who chilled out later and if they did when did it get easier. It's really really challenging at the moment. Thanks

I have a DD of the same age.

Hating having her hair brushed and disliking loud noises I think are par for the course at this age. As is at least some level of fussy eating.

Her attention span sounds like it's on the short side for her age but not necessarily worryingly so - the range of normal in all sorts of areas at this age is so wide.

The only thing I would mention is that my DD's attention span completely goes when she's overtired - is your DD definitely getting enough sleep?

She sounds a lot like my dd who's being assessed at the moment. She was diagnosed with autism 2 years ago.

I meant she's being assessed for adhd at the moment.

She does get a good amount of sleep. But she's definitely better in the morning. Breakfast is the only meal I can get her to sit at the table and eat. Actually she's always been a good sleeper one of the things that maybe means she isn't ND. Other things that make me think maybe she isn't. She is fairly flexible, doesn't mind if things change. She's good with social contact with people she knows, eye contact, interacts, picks up games. Very imaginative, can see others are upset or angry. Seems ok at nursery. She's from a family of fidgety, short attention span people. I don't think any of us are ADHD. I don't know. It sounds like it's a wait and see. Though I think I'm going to see what nursery say and maybe request Health Visitor if she's still the same after she turns 4.

I really recommend you get her into sports as soon as possible. One of my children was similar and we got him heavily into sports from age 3. So, football classes several times a week to burn off energy. Swimming also. Tennis. Loads of girls do football now. Netball would also be good. The girls we know have done really well doing swimming, netball and football every week. I know there's a cost but it's worth it if you can. Do you have some outside space at home for a football net and netball post?

I've also wondered about adhd so understand how you feel. I think some kids do just have boundless energy which they desperately need to burn off. Exercise is one of the best ways of managing adhd anyhow, and has been proven to help considerably. I underestimated just how much exercise children needed as my first was happy to sit and draw all day.

Long walks in fresh air, parks, nature, sports classes, trampolining, adventure playgrounds, swimming, and less of the other stuff - shopping malls. Shops, cafes, cinema, theatre.

@chocolaterevs I do think sports would be fantastic for her, especially a team sport. I've tried Little Kickers and she just refuses to do any of it. It was a while ago so maybe I should try again. We have a football which she'll kick about for a bit then on to something else.

What is her diet like?
At this age she is growing her brain, so needs to eat lots of brain friendly foods. If you want to look into that try watching Georgia Ede on youtube, her focus is actually mental health and how diet impacts mental health, but she does detail what the brain needs from the diet quite clearly.

Are there any resources you would particularly recommend? My 4 year old DD is quite...challenging...at the moment and I could use a better approach. No-one has suggested she's anything other than NT at the moment, but I'm dyslexic (with some heavy crossover with the disorganisation and daydreaming aspects of ADHD) so we're keeping an open mind. If there are techniques that are useful however her brain turns out to be wired I'm all ears!

I understand. My son was the same and I gave up a couple of times. It finally clicked between age 4-6 and he's been heavily into sports since then. It's been the best thing for him. He's a non sleeper too though so the only way we can get him to sleep for even 9 hrs is masses of daily exercise. He won't really sit and game or watch tv (blessing in disguise I guess) and would never choose to go the cinema, but can manage a restaurant and school lessons just fine.

I know it's hard right now but picture life in a couple of years. She may be well into sports and receive all the benefits that brings - making friends for life (parents too), learning discipline and gaining strong self esteem. On the other hand the kids that are happy to sit and just be (I have one of those too) often don't want to do any sport or exercise and end up spending too much time on screens and isolated at home.

A desire to be up and about and moving and doing can have huge benefits as the child grows up.

Oh and do you have a climbing centre near you? My niece didn't like other sports but absolutely took to this and is fantastic at it. If she likes climbing and moving this could work.

@evolutionary, it's all about immediacy and emotional regulation.

Immediacy means immediate praise, consequences, instructions and actions. No long lists of things. "DD can you brush your teeth, get your bag and get dressed" is about 50 actions, none of which will be remembered. We had a picture list of morning tasks on the fridge and would point, "DD what comes next?". And praise everything, but not gushing. So it's, "good job" for the teeth. But anything that requires effort or concentration, "I see that you really tried with that, are you proud of yourself?" "that tree in the picture is great, did you work on that a lot?" Internalising both the action and the praise. Never "OMG you're amazing" or "fantastic picture".

But bad behaviour, "DD if you do that we will have to leave (or some other immediate natural consequence)" she does it, "sorry, we have to leave". No long lectures or value judgements or disappointment. Just the consequences, very swift and with empathy. ADHD kids get a LOT of negative talk and almost no positive so trying to address that is important. Have a positive story about your child.

Emotional regulation, back to the fridge. Big graphic of faces with emotions. Teach them to recognise their mood and name their emotion. Empathy is really important. Both to have it for them and to teach to them. So any outburst or tantrum should be met with, "You're really angry, I'm sorry" and when they can talk about it, "what was going on DD?" Again short and empathetic. If they get angry/upset again talking about it, "we'll talk when you can".

Don't expect too much, make sure you run through all the things you could have done before their behaviour. Hungry, tired, too much stimulus, thirsty etc. And have age- and ability-appropriate expectations.

The best book is How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk. Really good.

Second this. Solo, so no fear of rejection, and risky, which is great for kids with ADHD. DD loved it.

Martial arts as well.

She sounds very physical so get lots of toys and play resources like diy climbing wall, mini trampoline, wobble boards, trikes, swing, ropes etc. Outside as much as poss. Avoid sugars & fruit juice.

This is really helpful. Thanks

We do have some but probably not enough. I might look into getting some more garden toys, and seeing if the climbing wall takes 3 year olds, as I bet she would like that.

She is fairly flexible, doesn't mind if things change. She's good with social contact with people she knows, eye contact, interacts, picks up games. Very imaginative, can see others are upset or angry.

BTW my little ADHDer is very flexible, makes eye contact, imaginative. ASD and ADHD are different, sometimes almost opposite to each other. Your low attention span, fidgety family could be masking some of this. I didn't know I had ADHD until DD was diagnosed. And I spent a lot of time saying, "but that's normal" when it was only normal for us.

@MrsTerryPratchett that's really helpful, thank you. I've ordered that book!

A lot of what you've mentioned I got from my own parents and know isn't helpful, yet I find I do it anyway.

We are getting into a negative pattern and I really want to change that. DH and I are probably not as emotionally regulated as we should be either (that emotional fridge graph might be useful for all of us!)

Many thanks for the recommendation!

OP - solidarity! Before having DD I didn't realise that the thing you love most in the world could also be the most frustrating entity in the universe!

You can make one easily on a wall, V board with small children's grip pegs that permanently attach. You can build these inside too.

Oh yes, you have to unpick your own childhood and do the hard work. I did!

Treat every interaction as building the relationship not controlling the child. You'll win the war but lose a lot of battles!

I don't think we're really winning the battles at the moment, so we've got nothing to lose by abandoning that aim!

My parents did their best, and certainly love me, but boy has there been a lot to unpick - it would be nice if DD didn't have to do the same. Or, less of it, at least. Once she's old enough for expletives I should probably introduce her to that Larkin poem

When you mess it up you apologise. My parents never did and still don't and it makes a difference, "you know what, mummy was angry/short/grumpy then so I apologise". Heartfelt.

Parenting classes saved me. I did them all twice!

@Cornflakes44 How's your girl doing now? From a fellow mum of a whirlwind toddler

Hello, sorry for the late reply. She’s still fairly hyper and impulsive. But she has gotten better. She’s started school now and that has had a good effect. She’s still the one that kicks off in the yard and struggled a bit to concentrate but she’s not a million miles away from the other kids. She will now sit for longer at a table, she will do an activity for a longer amount of time, just about get through dinner at home, and with lots of colouring in etc sometimes in a restaurant, which is a big change. I think school is a big turning point. I’m not as seriously worried about her anymore. How old is yours? You have my sympathies, whirlwind children are exhausting xx