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10 year old won't use toilet

494 replies

Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 10:36

We are at our wits end now with 10yo dd who has fairly frequent accidents in her pants because she just won't go to the loo.

She eats a good diet, no food allergies (we tested), no learning or behavioural issues and nobody else in the family has any issues. We have a 3yo who just toilet trained like a dream yet were dealing with this with a 10yo. I do try not to get too cross or overly embarrass her about it but it's really tough because she will literally sit on the sofa and poo her pants rather than take herself to the loo. Sometimes her sister will tell me that she's doing it cos she can tell by her body language (and the smell and somwtkmes noise) but dd herself just sits there and shows no urgency to get herself to the loo. Unless I frog march her and make her sit she won't go to the loo at all.

Have tried incentives, punishments and nothing seems to work. GP thought she might be constipated so we tried laxative drink sachets for a while but only made it worse as gave her diarrhea.

Anyone any advice on how to basically re-toilet train a ten year old?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Littlefish · 18/05/2024 14:50

Upinthenightagain · 18/05/2024 11:01

Are you sure she’s not constipated? She might be impacted higher up and need an impaction.
Eric the bowel and bladder charity have a helpline with very knowledgeable people available to speak to you

I fully agreed with this suggestion.

JanglingJack · 18/05/2024 14:53

Tough one.

I'm trying to think back to when I was younger. I regularly pooed in my sleep until about 6 or 7. I would wake up with no memory of it, and it dried and stuck and just awful. I had bed wetting accidents until I was 12. My friend was giving me a backy on her bike and I pooed myself. I was old enough to be ashamed and deny it.

In the meantime I was always top of the class at every year and 'thriving'.

I had a REALLY nasty start to life though and I look back and wonder if it was that - because I do think about it still. But I don't remember any feeling or straining or the urge to go, it just happened.

I'm sure your 10 year old isn't enjoying doing it. Persevere and get her seen again, and again, and again if needs be.

We didn't have anything back then in the 70s/ early 80s. Mum never got cross just ran a bath and scrubbed jamas in the loo. My brother had developed tics also due to our early childhood.

The only that ever stands out looking back was the lack of urge. It just happened.

Enigma52 · 18/05/2024 14:54

This is a tough one OP.

Cast your mind back to when this very first started and try to think, has ANYTHING changed in DD's life that could possibly have triggered this behaviour?

I'm a TA in an SEN school and so often we hear of parents at their wits end with different behaviours, yet at school, the child can be fine. When these behaviours are suppressed at school ( for fear of embarrassment and lack of control) they often erupt at home, as a release.

Could DD be doing this as a form of control? Perhaps in the same way that denying food can be used as a form of control when a person is unhappy?

Apologies if I'm way off the mark, but it looks like some intervention may be needed quick, before secondary school descends.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Summerpussy · 18/05/2024 14:54

Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 14:46

@MadeofCheeese
Thanks- sorry you had that problem. I'd understand if dd had some kind of anxiety about unfamiliar toilets but she won't even use our own

To continue my above post
My youngest son with diagnosed autism,will only use the home toilets, or the toilet on a holiday home once I have cleaned it .so going out for the day is Impossible,as he won't use the loo anywhere
So many many times I picked him up from school wet and smelling .one time we were in the head teachers office and he pooed himself..
He's been having home learning since age 7 because it got to difficult getting him to school ,we were under CAMHs ,but once he got schooling sorted out we were dropped.
My mum also had issues with toilets and she would run all the way home so she didn't wet herself, because she couldn't go to the toilet at school ..
I strongly suspect my mum is autistic because she has many of the same issues my diagnosed son and I have.
All kinds of Toilet issues are common with autism

HollyKnight · 18/05/2024 14:54

Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 14:42

@HollyKnight
I know people are well intentioned but it's very upsetting to think about

I know, just don't dismiss it because you don't want to think about it. It's natural to want it to be anything else but that, but if it is that, it is important to know so she can get the help she needs. "Trauma" can be caused by many things, not necessarily SA. When I was a child I went through a phase of not going to the toilet at night and never flushing the toilet. It drove my mother crazy, walking in to be greeted by my poop.

The reason was because I'd watched a horror movie at my gran's house and developed the fear that the noise of the toilet flushing would drown out my screams when something came out of the toilet to kill me. It was really that simple. Your daughter might not even realise herself what the link is. These outward signs are often subconscious. Or she might know, but she's too embarrassed to say like I was.

Auntieterrible · 18/05/2024 14:54

@Katiemonkey15 how is she with eating? Is she always hungry? Does she use the term “I’m full”?

Choochoo21 · 18/05/2024 14:55

You telling her off or getting angry with her is very cruel.

She obviously isn’t doing this on purpose and it’s heartbreaking to read that you are telling her off for something she can’t help.

It’s like being told off for coming on your period.
Sometimes you can feel it coming but by the time you’ve got to the bathroom it’s already come out a bit.

She either has a physical issue or a psychological issue.
(Perhaps there is some disconnect between her bowel and brain and she doesn’t know she needs to go until it’s too late).

I’ve worked with many teens who’ve had bowel issues and they’re not being lazy.
I don’t actually know the medical reason for it but I know it’s not their fault.
Some of them had to wear pull ups into adulthood but for some this was discouraged.

If you are struggling to clean then perhaps period pants or incontinence pants might be better to stop it going on your furniture.

Please ask the GP to see a specialist and keep going back and trying different specialists until you get to the route of the problem.

imip · 18/05/2024 14:58

Sounds like something ND - sensory processing. Her body may not be fully registering she needs to go. Three of my four dc are autistic and toileting issues really do continue for a lot longer. Even as teens they are fussy about where they go to the toilet. They also struggle with their periods to different extents. There have been occasional accidents - thankfully at home.

if there is an accident, we just quickly clean up and move on. Some of my dc would consider themselves painfully cool and pretty bright and while may be indifferent about the issue at home, would be very embarrassed in front of peers.

sarahc336 · 18/05/2024 14:59

Could she have contamination ocd?

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:02

She's 10. Have you seen a gp yet? I think I would have done so around 5 or 6 years ago OP..

Auntieterrible · 18/05/2024 15:03

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:02

She's 10. Have you seen a gp yet? I think I would have done so around 5 or 6 years ago OP..

@Perfect28 im sure op said it’s only Ben happening since Easter

LittleBearPad · 18/05/2024 15:03

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:02

She's 10. Have you seen a gp yet? I think I would have done so around 5 or 6 years ago OP..

It only started at Easter. Do RTFT

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:03

Oh I apologise.

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:05

LittleBearPad · 18/05/2024 15:03

It only started at Easter. Do RTFT

Seems like information you might put in the OP no?

HideTheRockyBars · 18/05/2024 15:06

Wild suggestion, what about one of those disco toilet lights, make the bathroom more fun?

PennyPugwash · 18/05/2024 15:06

Hi OP, can I just say, this sounds so so stressful.
You seem to be a great mum.
Best of luck to you and her xxx

JanglingJack · 18/05/2024 15:07

JanglingJack · 18/05/2024 14:53

Tough one.

I'm trying to think back to when I was younger. I regularly pooed in my sleep until about 6 or 7. I would wake up with no memory of it, and it dried and stuck and just awful. I had bed wetting accidents until I was 12. My friend was giving me a backy on her bike and I pooed myself. I was old enough to be ashamed and deny it.

In the meantime I was always top of the class at every year and 'thriving'.

I had a REALLY nasty start to life though and I look back and wonder if it was that - because I do think about it still. But I don't remember any feeling or straining or the urge to go, it just happened.

I'm sure your 10 year old isn't enjoying doing it. Persevere and get her seen again, and again, and again if needs be.

We didn't have anything back then in the 70s/ early 80s. Mum never got cross just ran a bath and scrubbed jamas in the loo. My brother had developed tics also due to our early childhood.

The only that ever stands out looking back was the lack of urge. It just happened.

Sorry, going back to this after reading a few other comments, I was diagnosed with autism and adhd in my mid 40s.

It made so much sense regarding other life issues at least.

I actually went through a time in my late 20s of wetting self on sofa or in bed. I couldn't believe it! The amount of scrubbing and just trying to get rid of the smell of adult pee...
I was in an abusive relationship. It hasn't happened since! That had no warning or feeling either.

(although pushing 50, I do struggle with putting key in lock, I'm home, omg omg leg it upstairs... D'oh!!)

LittleBearPad · 18/05/2024 15:07

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:05

Seems like information you might put in the OP no?

Blaming the OP for the fact you didn’t bother reading the thread before jumping in with your judgy comment and pass agg ellipsis?

Fraaahnces · 18/05/2024 15:11

Some kids hold on to their poo if they have been constipated or get an anal tear, or it hurts them in some way. After a while, that poo dries up and becomes harder and more painful to excrete. It will eventually form a hard ball that gradually backs up, allowing only more liquid faeces to escape around it. In the meantime, it continues to grow and stretch her bowel, which can paralyze the nerve-endings which tell her she needs to go. If this is not treated quickly and appropriately, it will eventually affect her bladder movements too, and she could have problems for life.

My DD was given both Bisocodyl and Glycerine enemas to disimpact her bowel every day for quite while. At this time and for two years, she was also given Lactulose to attract water to her bowel and low-dose Bisocodyl tablets to stimulate bowel contraction (to tone it) while she basically grew into her stretched bowel.

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:17

LittleBearPad · 18/05/2024 15:07

Blaming the OP for the fact you didn’t bother reading the thread before jumping in with your judgy comment and pass agg ellipsis?

I'm on android, there's no filter for op's posts only. So no, I didn't read 180 comments and yes, I did apologise.

Do you read every single comment on every single thread? If so you have more time on your plate than me!

nocoolnamesleft · 18/05/2024 15:19

Firstly, can the people incorrectly and unhelpfully suggesting shaming or punishing this poor kid please sod off. Those strategies will make things worse.

Secondly, she isn't doing this on purpose. Whether she is constipated or not (99% of them in this situation are) her brain is no longer receiving/ correctly interpreting the signals of the need to poo.

Thirdly, if she isn't going to the toilet to poo, then there's nowhere else for it to go but her pants.

If she is constipated (and children can accidentally make themselves constipated by withholding) then the last part of her gut, the rectum, which is normally a squeezy stretchy hosepipe sitting empty waiting for poo to come along, gets full of poo, which stretches it, and impairs both it's ability to push, and also the ability to feel when is a good time to push. So they can't tell when some poo is about to want to come out. In the meantime, the poo sitting on the bum hole, pressing, dilates up the anus (like with the head pressing on the cervix in labour) , meaning that poo leaks out more easily. In the meantime, there's still food and drink going into the top end, which is digested into liquid poo which hasn't yet had all the water sucked out by the colon. If more liquid poo hits the top of the backlog of harder rocks of poo, it tends to find nooks and crannies to sneak past, coming out as overflow diarrhoea. The idea behind movicol is it hangs onto water, keeps it in the gut, and gradually dissolves the old poo. The disimpaction regime is intended to get rid of all of the old poo, which absolutely requires giving the child diarrhoea.

Clear out tends to need a good 3 days of stools like gravy, in vast quantities. Going straight to diarrhoea suggests significant constipation, and that you've just loosened things up enough to get overflow. Once the rectum is emptied out, it's still big and stretched up and flabby, so the next step is to use a smaller dose of movicol to keep the stools soft and squidgy and coming out every day, so the rectum can slowly shrink and heal and regain function.

At present she doesn't have a clue when her body needs to poo. So you need a routine. She needs to sit on the toilet for 5 minutes after meals, and also if you spot body language that she's ready to poo, take her then. Praise/ reward for going to the bathroom without arguing and trying. Once the poos start going in the toilet, then you can move on to rewarding for that. Then for going to the toilet without you telling her. Only think about rewarding for clean knickers when it's something she has a fighting chance of achieving. If she isn't making good progress once definitely not constipated, then it can be worth trying a small dose of a pushing agent like senna to encourage her to develop a pattern of pooing at a particular time of day.

These problems are more common in young people with autism, so worth a think about if she has anything else to suggest it, and maybe a chat with school. Abuse is occasionally a cause, and people are just mentioning it in case it makes anything go ping for you.

This is eminently sortable, but you do need help, so definitely back to the GP for a referral to either the continence team, or a paediatrician, depending who covers it in your area. Good luck. You can do this.

JanglingJack · 18/05/2024 15:20

Perfect28 · 18/05/2024 15:17

I'm on android, there's no filter for op's posts only. So no, I didn't read 180 comments and yes, I did apologise.

Do you read every single comment on every single thread? If so you have more time on your plate than me!

I'm on Android.

Click See All at the bottom of OPs posts.

Didn't we have a thread about this yesterday?

Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 15:20

Fraaahnces · 18/05/2024 15:11

Some kids hold on to their poo if they have been constipated or get an anal tear, or it hurts them in some way. After a while, that poo dries up and becomes harder and more painful to excrete. It will eventually form a hard ball that gradually backs up, allowing only more liquid faeces to escape around it. In the meantime, it continues to grow and stretch her bowel, which can paralyze the nerve-endings which tell her she needs to go. If this is not treated quickly and appropriately, it will eventually affect her bladder movements too, and she could have problems for life.

My DD was given both Bisocodyl and Glycerine enemas to disimpact her bowel every day for quite while. At this time and for two years, she was also given Lactulose to attract water to her bowel and low-dose Bisocodyl tablets to stimulate bowel contraction (to tone it) while she basically grew into her stretched bowel.

Your poor dd, that sounds awful.

OP posts:
Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 15:25

@nocoolnamesleft
Thanks for this info. I should have done more research when she got the diarrhea last time. Sounds like we definitely stopped the movicol too soon if this is a constipation issue

OP posts:
Katiemonkey15 · 18/05/2024 15:28

Sorry if this is a stupid question but if this is a constipation issue is there anything she can be given that won't cause diarrhea or is that inevitable to treat the back up?

OP posts: