10 year old won't use toilet

[Katiemonkey15]

We are at our wits end now with 10yo dd who has fairly frequent accidents in her pants because she just won't go to the loo.

She eats a good diet, no food allergies (we tested), no learning or behavioural issues and nobody else in the family has any issues. We have a 3yo who just toilet trained like a dream yet were dealing with this with a 10yo. I do try not to get too cross or overly embarrass her about it but it's really tough because she will literally sit on the sofa and poo her pants rather than take herself to the loo. Sometimes her sister will tell me that she's doing it cos she can tell by her body language (and the smell and somwtkmes noise) but dd herself just sits there and shows no urgency to get herself to the loo. Unless I frog march her and make her sit she won't go to the loo at all.

Have tried incentives, punishments and nothing seems to work. GP thought she might be constipated so we tried laxative drink sachets for a while but only made it worse as gave her diarrhea.

Anyone any advice on how to basically re-toilet train a ten year old?

You need to look on the Eric website and get some advice there. Or see a paediatrician, get a proper plan with support.

No. They almost trained themselves to ignore it in an "if I don't acknowledge it then it's not happening". Of course it's not "normal" but if it happens to you often enough then it becomes normal for you.

I can't fathom it because I've never had this issue, but it's happened to other people in my close family and as adults they say they can't even explain now why as children they didn't just go to the toilet which would have been far easier and more pleasant than holding on for ages and risking dirty pants. They just didn't.

Who cleans it up? See if it makes a difference if you make her do it. So she scrapes the poo into the toilet, cleans herself and any surfaces it gets on, changes into fresh clothes and then hand washes the underwear in the sink before they can go in the washing machine.

Make it more inconvenient to soil herself than not to. Don't shame her for it but just insist that she cleans up herself as she's too old to be changed like a toddler. If it is laziness then she will likely stop. If not, at least you've ruled something out and she does need to be able to sort herself out in case it happens when she isnt with you.

@literarybitery
Yes I'm browsing the site as we speak.

If the issue is constipation should we have kept her on the movicol even after the terrible diarrhea? It was really unpleasant for her, we had to keep her home and essentially super glued to the toilet for days and the skin on her bum even broke out in a rash because she was pooing (liquid) non stop.

The thoughts of giving her movicol longterm doesn't seem like a solution of it us then the cure is worse than the problem itself because all I want is for her to go and poo normally in the toilet independently

My daughters are year 8 and 10, they would be mortified to soil themselves like this (bearing in mind my younger daughter still has slight accidents if she’s leaving it too long to go to the toilet) so I honestly think the lack of embarrassment from your daughter is a big worry and needs further looking at.

It seems odd that she is not embarrassed about pooing herself. I developed IBS around the same time I started my periods and on the occasion where I was caught short I was mortified and cleaned everything myself.

Is she lazy in any other area of her life? If she is just lazy about this I would be inclined to think the issue is medical. Is she involved in the clean up process at all? Maybe getting her to help with all the washing and clean up may help her realise how much work this is causing you.

It is a psychological issue you need to unpack with the help of a professional. The earlier, the better, before periods arrive too.

I feel like you should try a tough love approach before going down the route of psychologists - although it will be difficult, I would tell her she can't do x or go to y (whatever means the most to her) until she is using the toilet. I wouldn't announce this in an angry or emotional way, simply be factual and firm, and try to behave normally as it could also be that this issue allows her to control the household. I think she needs to understand that unless she changes her approach and goes to the toilet normally without prompting, she won't have the type of lifestyle she wants.

@1AngelicFruitCake
She's embarrassed if we point it out or if I tell her off but she doesn't seem embarrassed enough to just take herself to the loo.

We never got to the highest dose as I just couldn’t get my son to drink it when it got so concentrated, but yes we did have to keep him off school in the stages he had the high dose. Speak to your GP about how to handle it. The idea though, as I understand it, is to totally clear the bowel so that you can reset and start again. As others have said, if the bowel has been stretched it needs time to go back to normal, so that normal bowel function can reestablish.

The low dose DS is on now does not cause diarrhea, it just helps to keep him regular by helping his waste be softer and easier to pass.

@Balloonhearts
She cleans herself but I clean the pants

Tell her she will have to go back to using nappies if she can't use the toilet? Start inviting her friends over in the evenings and see if that convinces her to go? I think it may be time to make a big deal of it.

OP, please get professional psychiatric help with this before you increase your DDs problem. Do not go the route of punishment. I am reporting some replies on this thread. I am a psychologist but not in this area - it really is screaming ND / trauma/ abuse - you will need a professional to find out which is triggering the response.

I think referral to a paediatric clinic specialising in this will get you a multidisciplinary team and they can sort out the physical and psychological issues.

It is urgent - she will start periods soon and this will increase the risk of complications.

@Bumblebeeinatree
With respect, I think putting her in nappies would be the worst thing to do. I want her to become more independent, not infantilise her

I would also urge you to listen to posters on here who have experience of this and not those, however well intentioned, who don’t.

Its very obvious that the ‘tough love’ ‘ stop her being lazy’ ‘punish her’ ‘make her clean up her own shit’ posters have no experience of this, as if they did they would know, as you and I and others have experienced, it simply does not work. Quite the opposite.

She is not choosing this and she needs support to resolve it.

Movicol is supposed to make the stools loose. That’s how it works. There is an argument to keep going with the Movicol and to do a full disimpaction - if she had been very constipated and fully blocked, she may have lost the sensation in her rectum and not quite know when she needs to go. My DD has been through this.

you really need professional help with this. As PPs have said, ask for a referral to the continence for clinic, and call the ERIC helpline. It’s hard to get through so you might be persistent

@Iloveshihtzus
I'm a bit freaked out by the trauma talk tbh. Hadn't occurred to me ever because this is dds only issue. She seems happy in every other respect and while I know some people think I'm obviously not handling this the best as a mum we do have a close relationship. If there was something bothering her I'd be really surprised if she didn't tell me but also if this was the only way it was showing itself? I'm going to ask for a referral to a psychologist anyway because very worried about that now

Has she always been like this or has it got worse? My DS has this issue to a degree in that he doesn’t seem to realise he needs to go until it’s almost too late. He has diagnosed ASD and we suspect dyspraxia and hypermobility. I would suggest you look at the latter as it can link to bowel issues. He was also referred to a paediatrician and we did a full disimpaction regime which worked for about two weeks but we did not get on with Movicol/Laxido/senna and it didn’t totally resolve the problem for us.

We have found emotions are as relevant as diet and fluid consumption in terms of keeping things on an even keel. That includes your emotions as well as her (trust me, I know how difficult it is), and any other responsible adults.

My DS gets in a real state now about soiling. What works best is to be totally non-judgemental - if he is distracted and has an accident, we expect him to try to clean himself (but will help if necessary); he also doesn’t have to tell us and can just bag his pants and drop them in his laundry basket so I can see they need attention.

No tv or device etc until she's had a week of going to the toilet in the abscence of their actually being anything wrong with her and it's just laziness.

Does she ever have friends round as I can't imagine her soiling herself in front of them?

What about her doing around her friends house or school trips?

Absence ^

Could she have sensory difficulties? Do you see any other sensory struggles/seeking with her? Sometimes the brain doesn't process the body's signals very well.

Definitely don't get angry with her or let her know you're upset as this will likely make things worse.

I wonder if some play therapy might help which you could fund yourself privately if you're able.

Try making her clean the pants. Straight away so she misses whatever she was watching or doing. If she is the one inconvenienced then it may stop her doing it. As it is she experiences no consequences for doing it because you are the one dealing with it.

I have known children who had loose sphincters (often in relation to Hypermobility syndromes), but their issues tended to be earlier and more that they hadn’t ever successfully not had poo accidents despite also pooing on the toilet. I’ve also known children develop a really big fear of the feeling of pooing on a toilet, the children I know have tended to be neurodiverse (but very able) and struggled with the sensory element after experiencing pain during a poo. I’ve also known a child who had an issue with the nerves in the bowel being dulled, so not getting the strong signals most of us get.

I think it would also help doctor to know amounts, so is it size of a penny in underwear or passing a full poo or anything in between. Really hope doctor has good advice and refers you on quickly. 🙂

Please ignore the posters who are encouraging you to shame your daughter. Take her back to the GP and insist on a referral. Unfortunately, toileting issues can be very complex.

Is She allowed to lock the toilet door? I wasn’t and that caused me worry and issues at that age.

Or, would she go to the toilet with you after eating and you poo first. Say it is her turn. Back to modelling the behaviour.

Then go out on your bikes or for a walk? Eat, Toilet, can go out.
Did this start when your younger child was toilet training and therefore got lots of attention at toilet time? Make a written timeline for both yourself and the doctor. As much detail as you can remember. The more you write down the more chance of seeing a pattern.
Make a special effort to praise other things when possible. I am sure you do already.
I wish you well as mum to mum. Bringing up children is a challenge. Sometimes it seems as if it is not one problem, then it is another.