4 year old - would these things concern you?

[anicecuppateaa]

Help please. DS has just turned 4. Since he was much younger I’ve suspected he might have asd.

Here’s a list of things that seem unusual - does this seem like in the range of ‘normal’ behaviour or should I be trying to discuss with someone (HV?)?

• Didn’t talk until 18 months (I took him to the GP at the time)
• likes order. DH brushed it off at the time and said he used do line up his cars in orders (DH is neurotypical). A current example is meltdowns if I put paint in the paint tray in the wrong order (the order of the rainbow is the only order allowed…)
• Cannot cope with not coming first (at games, getting up the stairs for bedtime etc)
• highly intelligent. Could recognise and name alphabet and numbers 1-20 by 2. He now knows all times tables up to 10 x table, does addition and subtraction games with me, can read lots of words because he’s learnt the phonics.
• Struggles socially but REALLY wants to join in. Can be very reserved until he feels comfortable but then seems to be normal socially.
• Meltdowns. He seems very frustrated recently and makes a gross grr noise rather than communicating
• Biting things. This used to be a problem and stopped for a long time. He’s back to putting everything in his mouth - soft toys, any toys, clothes etc. I find I am forever saying ‘we put food, drink and toothpaste’ in our mouths. Tonight he burst his new squishy monster birthday present by mindlessly biting it. I can’t tell if he is mindlessly doing this or seeking sensory input.

He is due to start school in Sept. Do I tell the school of my concerns, or are these things typical behaviours?

So as not to drip feed, he has a diagnosed (hopefully temporary) hearing loss. He is also a twin and his twin displays none of these behaviours.

@anicecuppateaa as well as boring it can be quite socially isolating being far ahead of everyone, but some children will be more bothered by that than others. I started deliberately doing badly in tests because I got bullied for having good marks.

The issue at that age is that these characteristics could be normal. Or could be ASD. It's a matter of degree and had to tell by description.

Fwiw, sounds very similar to my 3 eldest. All reading at 3.5, all knew their timestables too.... but often unable to cope with things being out of order/unexpected. Eldest has ASD&ADD. Younger ones not diagnosed but preschool thinks we should look into it as they really don't think the boys fit into "typical". Any stimming? Two of mine do. Eldest bounces on the spot and fidgets her fingers, one of the boys waggles his head oddly.

My eldest is doing very well at school and is mostly fine socially. She does need a bit of extra support with friendships as she sometimes doesn't understand behaviour. She has a friend that is very imaginative and tells stories. It's innocent and obviously intended to be fun rather than deceptive, but my DD always assumed she is being literal.

My boys I am more concerned about.

I'd ask for a meeting with the SENCO if possible. For my eldest ours was invaluable. She was excempt from phonics sessions and was allowed to go to the SENCOs room. Sometimes they talked about expressing emotions, or she just out on a video of breathing exercises etc. Massively useful to my DD when she was in reception and I think avoided issues that could have come up.

She's starting a new school.in September and I've already flagged up with the SENCO. They have some "safe spaces" for kids that need a quiet break and have said they'll explain these to DD. Worth finding out what support the school has.

It's so hard to say OP. My eldest has ASD and some of what you have written resonates, but other bits really don't. E.g. my DS has never lined things up, doesn't care about coming first (because he doesn't understand competition) and has never wanted to join in with his peers. But that doesn't prove anything as all children are different.

I would push preschool a little bit more for their thoughts. You might find that they are more forthcoming knowing he is soon to be off their books and therefore anything they say won't result in loads of extra paperwork for them.

@Hugmorecats yes that makes complete sense and I would like to find a way to stop that if at all possible.

@TinyTeachr thanks for sharing your experience. No stimming that I am aware of. He was off today and actually aside from the intelligence thing didn’t display any of the other behaviours that worry me. We’ve just got home from an activity group and I’ve handed him and 2 other dc to DH and he’s started having a meltdown, so maybe it’s linked to tiredness rather than asd. Who knows!

@ViveLaOeuf thank you. He has fridays off but I will talk to pre school on Monday.

The thing with autism is most traits are entirely developmentally normal until they extend past the expected age and cause negative impacts in day to day life IE my DD hating hand dryers at three years was entirely normal as they are loud and very close to a three year olds head, the fact she still hates them as a teen and 5ft10 and thinks they are the devils work is less normal.

When your child gets diagnosed there is very little help, the 'label' can help with getting some validation and a bit of TLC but it isn't a magic wand that accesses support.

Children with autism tend to show very clear signs at either the start of Primary or the start of Secondary.

What I would do (and in fact did) is write down your concerns and keep them safe maybe in his red book and start saving, private diagnosis is around the £2.5k mark or NHS waiting lists are often 4years+. That way if you do need to proceed with an assessment you'll have your evidence of his early years which is essential for the development history.

Thanks @Singleandproud I am worried about things escalating when he starts school and we would definitely try to scrape the money together if needed for a private diagnosis. I will keep writing things down to keep a record.

2 of our nct friends (who we see a lot) are primary teachers and we’ve discussed my concerns, they say they don’t think he has asd but think its a watch and wait situation.

@anicecuppateaa Primary teachers really aren't the best placed to comment, alot of children aren't diagnosed at that age and you would be surprised at how little training teaching staff get (I say that as a former teacher) and certainly very little beyond stereotypical behaviour. I'm sure DDs Primary teachers would probably be surprised at her diagnosis or how much she struggles with the Secondary school environment whereas at Primary she thrived always top of the class, picked for any public speaking events Mary in the Nativity etc.

Although she also preferred to observe other children rather than play with them - that was picked up but brushed off as her being an only, she also struggled with anything requiring imagination so got picked up on her extended creative writing not being at the same level as her general English skill level. Other than that she was just very bright, a good role model, pleasure to have in class etc.

@anicecuppateaa highly recommend 'A parents guide to high functioning autism spectrum disorder' for factual evidence based information from leading clinicians. Some of the content of this thread is not overly accurate and based on outdated knowledge/views. It has great chapters talking about the change to diagnosis these days as well as assessment process, atypical presentations etc. I've found it really helpful.

Thanks so much, will definitely check that book out. Really appreciate the comments and suggestions.

@Singleandproud I think that’s true about teachers, and also with thirty kids they don’t necessarily have time to notice the nuances of behaviour in children who are masking. So if a child is behaving well (not disrupting the class) and doing well in their school work it might not be noticed if they’re struggling in other ways. The specialist speech therapist who observed my son in class as part of his diagnosis picked up on lots of things his teacher hadn’t noticed - she has the training for that and also was focusing on just him, not trying to teach a whole class.