How did cave women look after their babies?

[Lorddenning1]

Ok so I have a 6 week old baby and he has lots of stuff, a crib, Moses basket, cot and a a pod/nest, this is all for sleeping, don't get me started on a pram car seat, feeding stuff...
Back in the caveman times how did the ladies take care of the babies, like in winter how did they keep them warm, how did they keep the babies quiet so they didn't get eaten or killed by other tribes. What about nappies, was colic around then?

I often sit and wonder about these things, also how babies were made, did they just figure it out and then make the connection that everything they had sex, 9 months later a baby would appear,,,

Does anyone else think about these things or do I have cabin fever and need to get out more?

I think women being younger probably made the biggest positive difference in terms of the actual birth and first births are usually the most risky too. Women generally don’t die ‘giving birth’ the biggest cause is from uncontrolled bleeding after the birth, however that is much more likely in unhealthy/malnourished women. Sepsis was always a big danger but made much more likely interventions which introduced the infection in the first place so e.g. it was found women who had medical attendants were much more likely to die of sepsis

I actually know this one, they consumed organ meat and consumed a far higher amount of vitamin A than modern humans do.

I don't think we are built as well for childbirth as we were when we ate nutrient dense foods. I've read that our insufficient diet has meant that we are born with narrower pelvises.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/13/685533353/a-playful-way-to-teach-kids-to-control-their-anger?t=1552657681422

I think you'll find this interesting, I think smacking is not as natural as we are led to believe.

It's much more likely that women were respected, women represented fertility and life. Prehistoric ivory carvings called Venus carvings have been found all over Europe in prehistoric sites, depicting a mother earth/fertility goddess. Women hunted too. The idea that all prehistoric people were malnourished and never settled is false. It is more likely it was the opposite, there were no processed foods, they ate all the organs of animals rich in nutrients and fats, fish, salt, roots, herbs, leaves, berries, nuts, fruit. Bone broth has been proven to be a naturally anti-parasitic. Modern medicines come from plant sources, or synthetic versions of plants so they did use plants medicinally too. They dried meats and berries, and even had cold stored dug into the ground to keep food stored over winter. It's only once we got to the iron age that weapons and war over land and increased disease from places becoming overpopulated that things got bad.

Wealth was represented with amber, jewellery, shells, ivory carvings, beads etc. If your tribe was competent at hunting which involves working well as a team then you'd have time to work on crafting beautiful and valuable things rather than just trying to survive, so strong community and shared resources was essential for survival and quality of life.

As for the comments on childbirth, I remember reading once about how certain tribes still going today struggle far less with childbirth because they are used to sitting on their haunches, which develops essential muscles needed to birth more easily. Childbirth became more difficult when we moved from the floor to chairs and furniture and lost the ability and strength to squat easily. The squatting position is very beneficial for birthing. Our core muscles are no longer as strong as they should be either.

Fascinating article. Thanks for sharing.

No problem! I've really enjoyed this whole thread.

Wrt understanding sex and reproduction - there are fairly reasonable theories that some of the oldest pieces of writing/maths evidence known in the world were bones on which women counted the lunar cycle using tally marks to track their periods. So even if the role of the man was hazy, the women presumably knew their own bodies.

There is another series which mentions something about a Wolf Clan? And some of the books about the wild west that have information on Native American tribes have good insights into small scale societies and how they work.

There was also a tv show I remember seeing fleetingly where they had people living in tribes like early humans would. The bit I remember seeing was saying that tribes had to meet other tribes to interbreed, trade information and resources, but that you never knew if a strange tribe would be friendly or attack you. And also remember reading that the purpose of eyebrows in humans may have been to transmit information about emotional state over a longer distance than you could see from the rest of the face. I dont remember much more from Anthropology as it was a long time ago, but I do remember getting and reading the Cave Bear books. As I said, my memory is that the story of the main character just got very silly, but that the background (how they cooked, travelled, mated, etc etc) was really sound. But they are quite old and the science may have moved on.

e.g. it was found women who had medical attendants were much more likely to die of sepsis

That is really interesting - I remember reading something about Jane Seymours death saying that birth got really dangerous when instead of the local wise woman, doctors got involved.

@Needanewname42
"But I disagree on birth beong more dangerous. My theory is wild animals birth without much help. Any that can't get stuck causing death of both mum and baby. Wild animals, even farm animals never seem to need 'stitching' after the birth. Open wounds would make infection and probably death."
The problem with human birth is the size of our heads. Human brains are larger, and that means the heads are larger relative to the body.
Secondly, humans are born utterly helpless, whereas other animals will be walking soon after birth.
Animals do often need some help with birthing, and some die, but it would appear to be more starightforward than humans. However, we only really get to know about farm animals, we don't really know how many die when it comes to wild animals.

@milveycrohn have you seen the size of a newborn panda giant 🐼 or a newborn kangaroo ? They are tiny wee things. Kangaroos Obviously put them in their pouch but I've no clue what wild pandas do with theirs.

Nomadic herd animals, (bovine, sheep, equine, whales ) need to be on the move quickly. So babies need to be quiet mature.

But plenty other pack animals (cats, dogs, bears, rodents) are fairly immature when they are born and don't leave the home (set, nest, den) for a while.

Obviously humans are types of apes, with gorillas as our closest relatives, i don't think I've seen a newborn gorilla or chimp. (Not strictly true, was at a zoo where the chimps baby was stillborn a day or so earlier, they were waiting for her to put the baby down before going to retrieve it). I imagine they must be able to cling to mum soon after birth but I'm not sure.

Most mammals are born utterly helpless, just like humans. Baby chimpanzees and bonobos (our closest relatives) take 4 years just to be weaned for example.

There was a time when rich women were more likely to die than poor ones because it was fashionable to have doctors attending, who considered it offensive to expect a gentleman to wash his hands....

I totally agree re poor diet now! HOWEVER, I once worked out (when sadly anaemic in pregnancy despite lots of red meat and vitamin tablets), that to get enough iron in her diet, a woman in a pre-tablet era would need to eat the equivalent of FIFTY large eggs per day, to get enough!! No wonder they are shown as having a penchant gor fainting when stressed - I'm amazed any of them managed to stand up ever 😂!

I read that some of us (probably me), have a gene for a "Celtic Hip", which is essentially a deeper hip socket which makes it very difficult to squat. I wonder if birthing is harder in populations which have it 🤔

How interesting thank-you! I've long wondered. Although that just raises more questions about whether they weren't also at a higher risk of having babies with birth defects? And if not, why not??

I was reading about this a while ago and managed to refind the bit I read. (It actually goes on to talk more about Vitamin D, but this bit is quite interesting re folic acid:

“During paleolithic times, from about 40,000 B.C. to 10,000 B.C., humans consumed substantial amounts of folic acid, estimated to be approximately 360 mcg daily (about twice the current U.S. dietary consumption). In recent years, folic acid supplements have been used to normalize this particular polymorphism and to reduce the risk of neural-tube defects and heart disease.”

https://isom.ca/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/JOM_2005_20_1_03_Folic_Acid_Vitamin_D_and_Prehistoric_Polymorphisms-.pdf

No problem. I've read that we can use the natural version of vitamin A (from animal products) without it causing toxicity or birth defects. It's the form that comes in vitamin pills that our bodies struggle with.
It's alike folic acid, some can't even absorb any from pills but they can from natural folate (animal products)

But most women don't have to take iron supplements do they, so even now we must mostly get enough through diet? I've had 3 pregnancies and never thought about iron intake.

Iron is a weird one.
The most common genetic disorders in Scots and Irish is Heamochromatosis where basically the body stores too much iron. Too much Iron messes up where ever the body stores it, cirrhosis of the liver, arthritis in joints, etc.

The theory is that at some point in history, it helped people to survive famine or something.

@WittyFatball "But most women don't have to take iron supplements do they, so even now we must mostly get enough through diet? I've had 3 pregnancies and never thought about iron intake."

Me neither. I was wondering about that.

Who knows Perhaps in 2.5 million years into the future someone will start a thread saying How did 21st century women care for their baby’s they only had cots prams ect ect ect. If you think about it even now In our own life time we look back and think How did we manage with XYZ but we did.

@Mrsdyna & @ChaosAndCrumbs more and more interesting, thanks! Funny then that we are advised NOT to eat organ meats 🤔Although maybe the advice will change again in the future.