Professional Help with extreme 3 yo behaviour

[CraftyC]

For 2 years it's been screaming and hitting and biting and kicking multiple times a day. No other signs of any learning difficulties (i am a teacher so know what to spot). We have tried everything. I am out of strategies. It's making all our lives an utter misery. My 5 yo is now hearing us argue more about how to manage the 3 yo. We are drained. Its been 2 years of daily hell. Where do I go for help? I could ring gp but afraid we will get put on a 2 year waiting list. I can pay private (to an extent). I think we need mainly parenting strategies for when she is screaming in our face and hitting us because we didn't use the correct spoon to scoop her honey, but her behaviour needs explaining to us too.

No comments about "this is normal for a 3 yo" please. None of us can live like this anymore. I just want recommendations to help.

early help offer courses like triple p in most areas but a lot of it is going to be stating the obvious to you I’d think and he stuff you’ve already tried. Are you sure there is no sen, there doesn’t have to be associated learning difficulties? You could try some of autism strategies like visual timetables etc, these don’t do any harm to neurotypical kids so it doesn’t matter if child is autistic or not if it helps

Do they go to nursery at all? Whst are things like there?

It does sound like they're neurodivergent OP. It can be hard to spot in your own kid even if you're trained to do so in others. Definitely get her in at the GP to start the process

She just seems unable to control anger. She has brilliant social skills, great motor skills, amazing vocabulary, just absolutely screams like someone is literally murdering her (incredibly high pitched) when something isn't exactly the way she wants. Its very quick, zero to 100 in 20 or 30 seconds. She isn't even doing this with nursery or her childminder so it's just us at home. Everyone else calls her "angelic". I don't think there is any sen need.

Of course there's 'SEN need'. She becomes frustrated to the extent that she's violent. Pathological demand avoidance can show at that at, which is pretty much an autism off shoot. What's more worrying is that you think there's no SEN. All behaviour is communication, so what is she trying to communicate? It doesn't come from nowhere.

Hence why I am asking for recommendations for professional help.

Do you have any recommendations, or just criticism?

Perfect. They describe her as "angelic". It's all at home.

Health visitors can be best placed to assist rather than GP. It depends on your area and what’s available.

mine has play therapists that can advise techniques etc

If she is doing it across multiple settings then it would probably justify an autism or similar referral.

If she doesn't do it at nursery or at childminders then any referral is unlikely to be successful.

Usually the first step in any referral/help would be getting you to do a parenting course. Triple P is the standard one.

www.triplep-parenting.uk.net/uk/triple-p/

The general idea is that if you do this and there are still behavioural issues afterwards then (from SS/behaviour support) it's probably not the parenting,

Yes I think it's parenting. I have tried everything I know and it hasn't worked so I need someone, anyone, to help me with new strategies. It's me. I need help with her.

Sign up to the triple P parenting course.

They do online or in person,

www.triplep-parenting.uk.net/uk/triple-p/

I would absolutely go down the SEN route. Dd is perfect at school, and was at nursery and when she came home it was horrendous. She’s now on the ADHD diagnosis pathway.

Girls tend to mask a LOT more than boys in educational settings, and because it’s stressful for them holding it all in and you are their safe space they explode when with you. It’s called the fizzy bottle theory.

I am aware of the triple p and it 100% won't tell me anything I don't already know. In my job I give advice to parents simular to the triple p advice. Her behaviour is extreme. I need something more indepth than that unfortunately

Do they give parenting advice that works? Anything to minimise the misery?

Start autism assessment by contacting GP/HV and sharing concerns, and if she is diagnosed you may be able to access Earlybird parenting course, which is tailored for neurodivergent children.

But your parenting does work! You have an older child that doesn’t do this. It’s not you that’s doing anything wrong.

A diagnosis will help, either with medication or strategies for you all to work together when it becomes unbearable.

At one point I almost had a nervous breakdown due to DD’s behaviour, it was horrific. A combination of her getting older so I could talk to her and explain why and how she was feeling, medication (for both of us!) and understanding ADHD really helped.

This won’t last forever, but it is awful when you’re living through it.

There’s f all available then unless you can manage to find something private. Once social services/early help know you’ve done the triple p and the child isn’t in danger from you they offer no other support in my experience. My best advice has always come from other parents

There are things like picking your battles, low demand environment which may help but it flies in the face of traditional views about strong boundaries etc. so for example if she always wants a particular spoon just give her that spoon,

The national autism society runs early bird courses for children under 5 but I think they want a diagnosis.

They also run parent support groups (peer support groups) which you don't need a diagnosis to go to.

I found their parent support groups helpful.

www.autism.org.uk/what-we-do/support-in-the-community/family-support/earlybird-teams

There's a book called The Explosive Child that might help @CraftyC
https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/ross-w-greene/explosive-child/9780060779399#GOR001414494

Ye we have moved to this but even if something happens with her that she doesn't like such as she can't scoop the exact right amount of honey, things outside of us, it erupts within seconds. We have stopped demanding many things of her but she still finds 5 or 6 more things in the day to scream in our faves about. It's never ending. We never avoid it

Op don't rule out possible sen. She sounds like my eldest at that age, he is autistic and has a PDA profile.

Your style of parenting may work for your older child, but regardless whether there is something developmental going on with your youngest, your style is not working for them. Every child is different.

I know that you say a course won't tell you something you don't already know, but I'm also a professional working with children and it's really difficult to apply your knowledge to your own children. Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. It takes external support to really unpick what's going on.

I would speak to nursery and explain your concerns. I don't know what area you're in but there are often early years support or early help support. Have a look at your local offer on the LA website.

The fact that she control it in school means absolutely nothing. She is masking and repressing it. This is probably why she erupts like a volcano at home. I have a 3 year old like this, he has a trauma background. He is ok at school but terrible at home. My nephew is autistic and also able to mask his anger in school but erupts when at home.
Please don't make the mistake that control= must be bad parenting.
My unprofessional advice is:

1. NHS don't really want to know until they turn 4 in my experience.
2. Have you tried sensory things? Like playing with shaving foam? Does being in the bath calm her? Is there anything she enjoys that you can use? My son is often much better once he has had a bath so I've tried to build it into his routine, even at random times.
3. What is she like out and about? Survival for us has meant taking kids out whenever we can. My son is much better when out.
4. Does she do any clubs? Mine does a little gymnastic club. It has really helped him to let off steam and practise using his listening ears.
5. Decide what things you are zeroing in tolerance on. My son has a tendency to hit and kick to show any emotion. So I've done lots of "use your words, we don't hit". It has taken weeks (and his vocab is great!) but finally he will now yell at me "I'm angry!". Sometimes he managed not to hit me. Sometimes he hits me less hard. It has been a long slog but I'm seeing progress. We've decided that now hitting is zero tolerance. Light hits or hard hits are now sat on a chair or on our lap for 2mins. We don't do time out due to trauma. So it's time in. Every time he hits, 10seconds gets added.
6. Every single technique we have tried has taken WEEKS to embed. And every ounce of our energy, however we are seeing glimmers now.

Hang in there. Believe me, you are not alone!