needing positive parenting support and advice in general...3 1/2 year olds behaviour...

[whiteflag]

test to see if name changed worked.

since it did..here's my entry:

(*named changed. but fear not, i've been mumsnetting for sometime now!)

first, i am hoping i'm posting in the right part of mumsnet for this. (if someone can better direct me, that's cool too.)

yesterday was a sharp wake up call for me. that i've been allowing stress in my life to overly control how i am reacting and parenting my 3 1/2 year old son, whom is quite active and a clever kid.
(small bit of background: i'm separated from ds's father, but we all still live in the same house until i can afford to move out. i have my own room, as does my 'husband'.)

i took ds out to town shopping yesterday, he was very stroppy, not listening (much more than usual!), generally defying me at every turn, i was trying to find something for his nursery's late easter party today, well, no shops had any leftover easter stuff (so this had be stressed) we didnt go out last week as ds had chicken pox. finally at the end of my tether, in the shopping centre i work in, no less, ds was not sitting down on the circular bench thing with me, after repeatedly asking him (my head felt it was going to blow off!), (ds, obviously picked up on my cross mood and behaved worse.) he climbed under the bench and i had to pull him out (by his arms, no less until i could get him around the waist); he was shouting at me, trying to hit me, kick me, anything he could (he was tired as well, so that i think was playing a part too.) - i sat him down next to me, (ok, bad mother admission part: i wasnt rough with him, but i did sit him down next to me not so gently.), he turned to hit me and i caught his arm with mine and he hit his head on the bench trying to struggle away from me.
at this point, i stood him in front of me, crossed and held his arm (so he couldnt hit me in the face while i spoke to him), and i just shouted at him.

at this point, a man and his wife say something to me. i ask them nicely to mind their own business, which the man further does not, i finally stood up and told him he needs to back off, the woman remarked that she would call social services and also the remark that stung me, "that poor little boy".

they left and i left the shopping centre and called my husband. walking to the shop near where i was, i saw a police car and one cop on foot. i immediately thought those people called them. i panicked and went into the bathroom, i kid you not, i stayed in the handicapped toilet with ds until my husband arrived. i was nearly sick with stress.

(i'm gonna post this and continue in the next space..) sorry this is so wordy....

we don't smack ds, but both me and my husband realised we shout more than we used to. i could blame things for my reaction yesterday, but i know only i am to blame. i cried my eyes out for feeling like the most shit mother to walk to planet yesterday, i couldnt look at my son (who told me while we were in the toilet, that he loved me and it was okay to be cross) without breaking down. the guilt ravaged me.

i was so angry that someone said something. but last night, once i finally calmed down and ds was asleep, i realised that they may have really been well meaning, how do they know that i dont smack my kid around when i'm at home? (i don't, but hopefully you see my point.)

ds's behaviour is getting harder to deal with. but my reactions are not helping and i know this. and i have to change them in order to raise him better.

i remembered an article i read on positive parenting and i wrote down what i remembered from it.

i know i have some issues with my own childhood and abusive mother that i need to come to terms with and deal with also to become a better parent.

so today, i've stayed out of work and ds is home with me and i'm really working on not shouting (i haven't once!) and praising everything he does good (listening to me, etc.) it's working so far.

i'm using the hell that was yesterday for me to learn from and realise that i cannot be so easy to snap. i'm hoping to find some support here. i know MN isn't always the kindest of places (but it ain't bad!), so please dont crucify me. i love my son and i know i have to be better for him. and for me.

thanks for reading, if you stayed with me

(*i also rationalised that if they had called the police, the cop on foot, wouldnt have looked right at me and ds and let us walk into the shop.)

its gonna be a long road, but i know it'll be worth it. i'm hoping to find some support here when it comes to positive parenting.

I am sorry things have not been easy for you. Being a parent is not easy, I am at your stage yet but am sure that when DD is 3.5 she will not always be easy to understand/control.

The main thing that I have got from this, is that you are awre that you need to check your anger sometimes. This is positive. We do all get angry sometimes, but its when we dont know, are not able/willing to do something about it that it becomes problematic.
Good for you for taking the brave step of talking about it, and starting to recognise where your behaviour comes from an what you can do about it. Its difficult to do and take strength from that.

You sound like you're in the same sort of place as I am with ds3 (also 3, very stroppy). I've been thinking about how to get out of a shouting rut with him.

He does respond well to time and me sitting down going through things slowly with him and discussing why I want stuff done a certain way (hard, for me- 2 others to look after and ds1 severely disabled- I suspect my wanting to rush everything with ds3 has contributed to him fighting against this).

Will watch this thread with interest and would be keen to join you in a 'reducing the shouting' challenge and feedback what we both finds works.

DS3 is very different from my other 2 and needs completely different parenting weirdly. BUt he sounds very similar to your little boy.

Bet the police car was a coincidence.

Whiteflag, you poor soul.

I get into terrible situations with DS too and when i look back its usually that I am anxious / stressed about something else in my life and trying to pretend that everything is ok and then undertake some unrealistic project.

It sounds as if your life is very sressful at the mo and you need to acknowledge this and cut yourself some slack. The 3yr old in a shopping centre trawling the shops is probably an unrealistic project. If I take mine shopping at all it is planned with military precision as I know their tolerence is very limited.

You sound like a very loving and responsible Mum and I'm sure your DS knows it.

Take care.

We once got to the point where I thought we had become rather a "shouty house" and I was horrified, not least because IME the more you shout the less control you have.

Our solutions were 3 fold:

1. If we are really angry at something the dcs have done, we will send them into the hall to sit on the stairs. This has some disciplinary effect on them but mostly it stops dh and I from screaming at them.

1. Where possible, if we are about to shout we make a concious effort to say the thing in a funny voice. Humour can diffuse so much with a small child.

1. Focusing on negative behaviour is self fulfilling to a degree so try and focus on the positive and praise good behaviour to the skies.

Don't worry about the incident in the shopping centre, put it behind you as a lesson learned. Everyone loses it with their children at some point. If you think you went too far with your son, acknoweldge it and appologise.

usually ds loves the shops and shopping. i should have not gone out on such a trip with him when i knew his mood wasnt the best.

everytime i start to beat myself up about it today, i remind myself that i'm not as awful as i feel and that today is proof of how much better ds responds to me when i'm not shouting or losing my cool with him when he does not listen to me (he's been listening very well as a result.)

that's what i remembered reading, praise the good behaviour, so i am making sure i do that every time i can.

yurt1> maybe we could start a thread on reducing shouting if there isnt one active? (i have to smile at your name. since ds was younger, i would draw him pictures of yurts! and this morning, he made a lego house, i made a lego yurt!)

i still want to cry when i think that i frightened my own son yesterday, but i know i've learnt from it. and i'm the only one who can stop me becoming the kind of mother i had.

i am waiting for the GP to phone me back to talk with him about the stress and anxiety. and see what he might suggest. i'm also going to start looking into returning to counselling at some point (i've done it at my surgery, but i am thinking about contacting my counsellor from the surgery and see if she might take me on privately.) i've left a message for my HV as well.

thank you so much ladies. i was really scared to write this here. but i needed to get it out (other then to my husband, who was actually very kind to me yesterday..)

One thing that I've found useful is having a zero tolerance policy on hitting or kicking (by the children )

Easy for me to say as I have girls, and I know boys are very different, but still might be worth a try. Any bad behaviour may be tolerated at times, but physical attacks of any kind are always punished with being sent to their room, really cross face, no shouting, just instant reprisal and lecture about 'no hitting/kicking, etc.' I do think in general kids will push the boundaries as far as they can, and they know that mine ends there....

PS. If it's any support, I've smacked both of mine (once each) when at the end of my tether, and felt incredibly bad about it. It helped me realise that I never wanted to do it again though...

ds rarely strikes out, i think he was feeling as cross and frustrated as i was, he knows 'hitting is naughty, biting is naughty..' (he'll list off others things too!) he knows if he does it, he has to sit for 3 minutes.
definitely not going to tolerate it, never have and won't now. but i know i have to not let it work me up, regardless of what else is on in my life.

thanks redadmiral...

I'll be watching this with interest too as ds (2.5) has just entered a phase (she writes hopefully) of shouting loudly and frequently, usually in frustration when not allowed to walk and explore everywhere he wants to, ie all the time for eg in supermarket. I would love him to be able to walk and explore to his heart's content but sometimes it's just not possible. It's becoming very stressful.

whiteflag, your shopping centre incident sounds like one of those situations which spirals out of control as each of you wind the other up. I know it from experience.

This is such a tough job.

i should correct my last response- ds doesnt strike out as much as he did say 6 months ago. that sort of behaviour only rears up when he's really tired, frustrated or angry/upset. his 'normal' response is to sulk. (which we just ignore.)

i spoke to my GP who was supportive of me re-entering counselling, he suggested something to help me sleep (but sleeping pills leave me too groggy in the morning.)

walnutshell> i remember that phase with my ds. i know some people like them, some don't, but toddler reigns really helped with my son who wanted to always walk (we stopped using his pushchair almost a year ago!) - it's hard as hell when they dont understand why you wont let them...

as long as we remind ourselves that we wont always get it right, but we are trying.

and as i do most nights before bed, i remind myself that tomorrow is a new day..

Hi there,
I just went and got out a book we received at the end of a parenting course to find something helpful for you. (it was a great course!!) However I can't single out one thing.. so if it helps I can lend the book to you.. if you want me to post it (will need it back at some point though) email me.. jeni at benjamintong dot com
it is called from Pram to Primary school by Michael and Terri Quinn at the Family Caring Trust. Gentle but firm parenting, harnessing a childs spirit rather than squashing the spirit all together.

For what it is worth I think you should draw a line under your shopping center escapade. Just try to move forward. Being positive can have amazing results. One of the homework things we had to do from our course was to play for 10 minutes with your child without any distraction, do not ask questions why are you doing it like that? what is dolly doing now? but simply give an audio commentary as if you are describing the scene to a blind person. The child is usually delighted that you are really watching what they are doing. good quality attention for a short period of time can be better for the parent child relationship than a whole day of a little light attention.

Anyway I could go on but if you fancy me posting you the book let me know..

I am a shouty mum and things have been getting worse recently and have begun to say some nasty things amongst the shouting. Have been trying to control and am beginning(baby steps) o get things under control.
I have 2-3 days of good mummy then become shouty mummy again, and have to reign myself in.

The thing that really stopped me in my tracks was when I heard dd repeating the shouting at ds

I have searched the threads and found some help in those(too to start my own, so thankyou whiteflag)

1. Imagine you are being filmed by parenting programme during those moments
2. Say"lets calm down and think about why we are both so cross" - strangely I find this actually works we take a big breath together and I let DD tell me why she was cross first.
3. WALK AWAY - Honestly I find this the hardest but sometimes need to do this before I am strong enough for no. 2

hi jingleyjen, wow. thank you so much for offering to send me the book. i'm really touched. i'd hate to misplace it, but if it's that worthwhile i'll order it from amazon. if you dont mind me asking, what parenting course was it?

i've not thought about what happened sunday at all today. i'm noticing how much better ds is reacting to me. i'm making sure i get more sleep at night too. he's listening better too. (even put himself up for a nap today too!)

one thing i said to a friend of mine who has 2 children, the almost ironic thing is that when you shout at your child to stop shouting. i caught myself doing that the other day and it made me think what the hell kind of message am i sending.

walking away does work. its SO hard though.
i ask ds why he is upset, sometimes he cant put it into words though. i only raised my voice once yesterday. i was quite proud of myself. and not once today.

i hope this thread can keep going with more people chiming in with suggestions or just looking for support too.

Whiteflag, you sound like you are having a really hard time at the mo. I too reached breaking point the other day, I have a very short temper and spend half of my life shouting at dd1 4.5 who absolutly drives me mad, I sometimes actually feel like I am going to explode from the noise, tantrums, strops, aggresion etc. I have no idea why but I can react in the correct way to the same behaviour from dd2 2yo but dd1 just drives me potty.

Anyway, Sat after their father was away for the weekend and all they did all weekend was ask for daddy making me feel utterly unappreciated I compltly lost it and after they were in nbed I hit the wine and sank into a bit of a pit. Anyway I decided that for the sake of making me be a better mummy I would pretend that I am in a parenting competition with DH so I can be smug and energetic and generally not shout, really worked yesterday although after going to the shopping centre, garden centre, gardening and visiting the park I am now knackered. We have not left the house yet today but I think we are all a bit calmer than usual.

Thing is dd1's reactions are completkly over the top which really makes me react badly, I know I am the adult and should rise above it but I just can't seem to. Problem is she must have learnt these reactions from me in the first place.

I also like the idea of pretending you are on the telly, if it is any comfort they don't actually remember this phase of their lives that well. It is never too late to start over (I hope).

The course was called parenting with pleasure - it was advertised on the noticeboard at our village playgroup and DS's year group there had 4 girls in 21 children so was very boisterous there was a group of about 6 of us that signed up and a mixture of couples and individual parents that attended. A really great way of exploring our parenting and attitudes to parenting.
it surprised me a little when we were presented with a basket with emotions written on. we were asked to choose a rock that best described how we felt about parenting. both the Dads in thr group wanted the same 2 rocks, disappointment and frustration.. It really helped my Dh to see that he wasn't the only one struggling to come to terms with the fact that DS1 has his own mind and own opinions on stuff!
That was a ramble!! anyway you are most certainly not alone in getting frustrated by your child. sounds like you are doing really well these last few days.

I found 3 and 4 a hard age with DS and he isn't a difficult child in anyway.

Two books that have really helped me (recommended elsewhere on MN) are 'how to talk so kids will listen' and 'unconditional parenting'. The former is better for 'techniques' to get compliance without resorting to shouting and the letter was a bit of a revelation to be me because I realised I was trying to control too much and shouting would occur when I wasn't in control.

the latter

wow i'd love a course like that, jen, it sounds great. i was hoping to ask my HV about courses in my area, but i've not heard back from her yet

just seeing how some of the other moms on this thread are doing

we've been doing okay overall; yesterday was quite stressful in the morning (i raised my voice more in the morning then i had in the last week) - but i apologised to ds when i cooled down and we moved on from it. it's not easy, but it's not as hard as i thought it would be to react positively. (it's much easier on nights i get more sleep!)

hope everyone else is doing well)

Hi Whiteflag

My DS is the same age as yours and sometimes it can be hard - he seems to be turning a corner at the moment and overthe ast few days has been the nicest cuddliest little boy imaginable - now he is just a nightmare to get to sleep at night whereas he never was before - you can't have it all I suppose!

I was brought up in a house where it was either a smack or being yelled at no exploring feelings or asking what had been done by who we all just got a jolly good whack! I decided quite a while ago - DD is 7.9 - that I wouldn't be like that - we talk in nice voices and we do 1 - 5 before asking very firmly but in a nice voice what is the matter or do the go and sit on the stairs!

DS always does as he's told before we get to 5 now and it gives me a few seconds to take a big deep breath - mind you we all have really crap days when our hormones and our environment - and yours sounds pretty difficult with your family situation at the moment - get to us. I even go all Mary Poppins sometimes and altough inside I am seething outside I have a huge grin on my face and speak in a sing song voice.

Not the best advice but I jus wanted to let you know that there is light at the end of the tunnel and we all go through it so don't beat yourself up!