How can I get my son to stop being so silly?

[FlamingoYellow]

He's not always been like this; he's always been funny and made us laugh but he was mostly quite a sensible little boy. He had a really hard time in year 1 (undiagnosed SEN, maybe ASD) and developed a class clown persona to make the other kids at school like him and it's spiralled from there. It's 100% a tactic he uses to hide the fact he's struggling to keep up with the other kids.

He's now 8 and it's reached the point where I'm finding it very hard work to spend 1-1 time with him because he is so over-the-top silly. For example, I'll be trying to have a conversation with him about something (doesn't matter what the topic is) and all he'll reply with is the word 'apples' or whatever, usually while bouncing about all over the place, getting right in my face, etc. I wouldn't mind the occasional nonsense conversation with him but the majority of the interactions I have with him now are like this.

I'm not looking to change his behaviour at school , but I'd really like to get him to the point where he can relax and be himself at home. Does anyone have any advice? I've tried all the obvious things I can think of to encourage him to dial it down a bit but it's clear he finds it really hard to just be himself.

I don't think this is being silly, I think it's a feature of autism. My DS used to do the random word thing. I think he did it because he found conversation tiring or didn't know what to say, so he would just repeat a word like "apples" to make it go away. As he got older it changed and he would answer a question with a question, but again, as an avoidance tactic.

I would maybe try and understand this behaviour as a reaction to being tired or over stimulated. For my DS, he would socialise with one or two friends at a time as groups were too much. And I never bother asking him about his day after school. I let him relax and then ask an easy question like "what did you do at lunchtime".

He started martial arts about 2 years ago, I thought it would help him with concentration and self-esteem. He started off in the little kids group and got on really well but he's been in the older kids group for the last year and is finding it a massive step up in terms of concentration and following instructions. He does still enjoy it though. We've had a chat with the staff there though and they've been trying to support him so hopefully he can continue to take part.

He also goes to football club after school once a week. This was at his request, despite the fact that he has no interest in football beyond attending football club! He likes this but can't always join in due to feeling too tired/emotional.

Thanks that's really helpful.

I would take him to an Occupational Therapist trained in Sensory Integration, with knowledge of Autism and ADHD. Has been life changing for my Autistic child.
Also, I would consider if you yourself may be neurodivergent; with neurodivergent kids its likely either you or their Dad is and Ive learned that the parent understanding their own neurodivergence/ sensory triggers can be a really positive thing in parenting an Autistic/ADHD kid.

I know what you mean, and I think it's actually a mixture of 1) using the silliness as an avoidance tactic and 2) thinking that people will like him more if he acts like that.

I already clocked ages ago that if someone asks him a load of questions (even easy questions like 'what is your name?') he will start pulling funny faces and making silly noises because then everyone will laugh and no one will twig that he can't process all those questions fast enough to answer them. I think this is also why I'm not getting anywhere with teaching him social skills because it's an uncomfortable situation for him.

But he is also telling me that he has to act this way to make people like him. I wonder sometimes whether he might even be worried that I won't like him if he stops the silly behaviour. On top of all this, things are currently very bad for him at school and he has way too much pressure on him. I want home to be a safe space for him. I'm also concerned about the long term affects on his mental health from being all Chandler Bing day in day out.

I will definitely look into this. Although his dad is despairing at how much money we've spent on various therapies and assessments that have so far not helped at all!

I have an Aspergers diagnosis 🙂.

Honestly, I can not overstate the difference this OT made to my boy. He is like a different child. But make sure they are trained in Sensory Integration, not all of them are.

You might like the book ‘The Reasons I Jump’.
How about spending time together that doesn’t need talking or any end result? I have to do this with my DS (DLD and ADHD). Swimming, with no agenda, cycling, with no destination, walking (while role playing adventure games sometimes), painting - just colours, no end result.

This is exactly what my DS is like when not on his ADHD meds. He has a dual autism and ADHD diagnosis.

School described him as persistently giddy which sums him up, but it was actually losing him friends because he's annoying after the initial amusement wears off.

The meds have been a life changer for him.

it was actually losing him friends because he's annoying after the initial amusement wears off.

Yes, this is it exactly! I did have him referred for ADHD assessment but it got rejected.

Yes. If you recognise the signs leading to a meltdown that is the kind of thing I mean. There is a sort of lower level version of that which they sometimes just do all the time.

Sorry DS woke up so I got cut off.

You say he's putting it on whereas the dysregulation theory would have it as more of a nervous/defensive reaction. For me, I'm leaning towards this because of the way you say it's an uncomfortable situation, and that he's not taking in what you're trying to teach him.

Anyway either way you could look at this which is a specific approach to teaching social skills in children with ADHD that does actually have some favourable evidence, whereas most social skills trainings for ADHD don't tend to work very well. Click on the "download PDF" bit to read it.

https://chadd.org/attention-article/how-you-can-be-a-friendship-coach-for-your-child-with-adhd/

Thanks for this. I didn't realise that it could be low level like that almost all the time. I suppose it could improve a bit once the school situation improves...if it ever does! And thank you for being supportive in your earlier post.

Thank you I will definitely look into this.

I'll have a look at the book thanks. I like the idea of painting just to mix the colours around. He's such a perfectionist that if something doesn't go completely to plan then he'll rip it up and storm off, but if there's no plan then there's no demand. That's very clever!

We painted fruit and vegetables last week. Just got some veg and literally painted the outside of it. It was silly and lots of fun. I thought he was about to do it anyway and kind of ‘gave permission’ by starting it myself. I find joining in with ‘silly’ changes its power to annoy and frustrate me. I sometimes join in with the noises too, and we end up in an improvised beatbox chorus!
Sometimes the connection from laughing together really helps.
My DS is a perfectionist too and thinks he’s ‘rubbish’. Finding no-demand activities (process not product) is great. We play ‘no rules’ dodgeball in the pool, which is just so silly. Takes the sting out of trying to get him to swim ‘properly’ or risk ‘losing’ a game (because nobody loses).

The no rules dodgeball sounds so fun! I actually had the best trip to the pool earlier in the week with DS. He didn't get in the water once, just sat on the side and blew water at me through a pool noodle for half an hour, then we went home 😂. I didn't particularly love being repeatedly sprayed with cold water but there were no meltdowns so a big step forward.

Hey! I have asd and I went through a phase like this! I would be very honest with him. Sit him down and say that you love him and you will always love him so he doesn't need to worry about that but some of his behaviours need to change when you are out in public because his behaviour is that of a younger child and you would like him to try to improve it because it makes you uncomfortable. I second pp who said you need to be very specific about what behaviours count as silly etc. And talking about what behaviours are expected in certain environments before you enter them.

I would actually start by working on behaviours outside of the home because then he only has to maintain the good behaviour for a known amount of time and it gives him an opportunity to try out new ways of being and seeing how other people react. I would try to talk to him when he is in his quiet dark room state. You will need to have the same conversation multiple times. The key is being very clear that you love him, and always will, while owning your own feelings that his ( insert specific behaviours) make you uncomfortable, especially in public.

Good luck OP!

Thanks. This is basically the conversation that I've been having with him over and over again and I always think it's gone in but it never has! Maybe you're right I just need to keep on saying it.
I can't really talk to him when he's in his quiet dark room state because he's not able to talk to anyone or process anyone when he's like that. This is why all my conversations with him are happening when he's all silly.
I see what you mean about addressing his behaviour outside the home first. My thinking was that at least when we're at home his environment is controlled whereas when we are out he has multiple sensory issues to deal with and so it's harder for him to manage his own behaviour. I think you're right about having a set time he has to be calm for would feel more achievable. I'm thinking at the weekend I might set up an activity for him to do with his brother and step brother and they can model calm behaviour.

No worries! Have you read the book "the book you wish your parents had read and your children will be glad you did"

It's really great I would recommend it to anyone but especially parents of ND kids.

My mum would always tell me to behave in certain ways but would frame it as "for my own good" and in hindsight she was right a lot of the time but no one likes to hear that and everyone thinks they know what's best for their own good. I can't stress enough how important it Is to be clear that u want him to behave in a certain way for your own feelings , and you can express those feelings in your tone etc. It's OK - he has to get used to other people having important feelings.

I think that is also why it might be easier if you start with stuff outside the house because it's possible for ND people to mask outside but you can't keep it up at home, and it's confusing to have the same environment for both expectations.

Yes I agree with niftymintcat - let home be the place where he can really ‘be’ and work on some behaviours outside the home. He’s obviously managing to conform a lot of the time as you don’t have concerns about school. He can’t be shouting ‘cauliflower’ or whatever constantly at school, so can self-regulate in some situations.
I find my DS much, much easier when it’s just the two of us. If we are with others (even DH or DD, or worse, both!), his ‘sillier’ behaviours are either worse or, more likely, I try to control them more. DH and DD are more irritated by him and I think I try to protect him from that by stopping the behaviours. Usually backfires.
We modify things a lot, eg long journeys we will have an audiobook on with separate headphones for DD so she can’t hear him. Always a snack, like toddlers, as hunger makes it worse and he can’t feel it very easily.

Thank you.

Just to be clear, I don't want my child to mask at home, I want him to stop masking at home. I want him to go back to how he used to be before school fucked him up and made him believe he wasn't good enough as he was. For 6.5 years he was the most amazing funny, interesting person but for the last year and a half I'm seeing less and less of that person, now he is always either very grumpy or everything is a joke, but not in a good way. He does not seem happy.

Sounds even more familiar every time you post. Could be writing about my DS (11). In his case, it’s the social side of school that is so hard and he doesn’t do the ‘clown’, more withdrawal into himself so as not to be noticed at all. Must be VERY hard to keep either persona up all day.
I genuinely think social skills are best learned 1:1 with a loving, attached parent. Children can’t teach each other those skills. So your idea of an activity with siblings is lovely but might work better if it’s something DS can do really well with you first (or have no end product - ‘messy play’ for older kids type thing).

It's not that I don't have concerns about school - he is definitely the class clown. This started in year 2 and then slowly started to spread to other areas of his life. I didn't say I'm not worried about school, I said I'm not worrying about school right now - as in, the school situation is so bad that I'm not even going to attempt to resolve that situation with him at the moment.

Edit: actually, reading back my first post I didn't say either of those things, but that's what I meant !