Parenting / discipline style clash!

[quityojibberjabber]

Hi folks, desperate for some advice here. I fear this will turn into an essay, but I hope that it will chime with others and for a few it might even be worth reading right through!

My partner and I have very different approaches and styles when it comes to parenting/discipline, and it is causing a great deal of stress. Our daughter is 4.5. We also have a 0.5 yo daughter.

Basically, I am of the gentle school of thought - this is my natural instinct as a parent, and whenever I am unsure on something I research, but I probably do seek out the resources that validate my perspective. My reactions to challenging behaviours are (I think) patience, listening - giving her a chance to explain why she's upset/angry etc, talking to her calmly about what my expectations are, and if she's too in the throes of emotion, giving her time and space to get calm and then try to guide her with love towards a better way. I don't say yes to everything, and I don't say no to everything - I hope I'm doing a reasonable job of striking a healthy and safe balance but I’m sure I don’t get it “right” every time. I don't capitulate on decisions just because she's thrown a wobbly at not getting something, but I do try to find solutions that will help me manage the behaviour in ways that I feel ok with as a parent. I perhaps do find myself in negotiations with her more often than some parents might be comfortable with. I don't expect any miracle overnight changes and I accept that at her level of maturity, some behaviours simply are going to keep challenging us for a good while yet, and we just have to keep chipping away and providing the guidance so that over time she grows into a thoughtful, considerate and compassionate human. I try to model these behaviours. I definitely don't always get this “right”. My patience does have limits, especially when under time pressures or additional baby needs etc...

Partner is of the more hardline, authoritarian, parent must exert control school of thought. I don't want to do him a disservice, so I should say that he's full of love, fun, playfulness, generosity. His reaction to challenging behaviour is (as I see it - and I appreciate my lens is very much of a certain colour) to immediately go into scary dad tone of voice, if she's not complying he'll "count her down" and give her the threats that if she still doesn't comply he'll take away whatever toy is distracting her from the instruction and/or put her in her room and/or not take her to whatever activity/playdate/club/nice thing she's meant to be doing. When she still doesn't comply he'll snatch away the toy and pull/carry her crying to her bedroom, and will leave her there on her own in the dark, getting more and more worked up, and the whole thing rapidly escalates. When she’s worked up he’ll tell her to “calm down” in the least calming voice imaginable… All my perspective, but I try to put myself in her position and imagine how she would be experiencing it.

He thinks that I don't give any discipline, and that that undermines his discipline. He tells me I don't have control but honestly I don't expect to - yes she's only 4 and I’m the parent, but she has her own mind and I expect to guide her, not control her.

I know that there is room for differences, and I can see that there can even be benefits to it, as she'll get things from me that I do "better" and she'll get things from daddy that he does better. Most of the parenting challenges that raise these issues are probably things that we could manage to agree to disagree on (and there are so many - e.g. if she's resisting getting ready to go somewhere, getting ready to leave somewhere, putting her coat on, eating her dinner, doing her homework (yes, at 4 this is already an issue 😥 ), stopping climbing on furniture, doing something helpful like laying the table, tidying her toys, picking up some rubbish etc etc). The bigger things, like hitting out, throwing toys, screaming and shouting, running away from us in the street etc, I certainly don't tolerate - though I do still respond to them differently - he thinks I'm not tough enough because I don't do the confiscation of toys and the timeout type stuff. I think he thinks I should put my foot down on everything, as otherwise I won't be able to put my foot down on anything. He fears us raising an unruly child.

Anyway, I'll finally get to what is really becoming the biggest issue driving a wedge between us, which is THE DREADED BEDTIME! We have totally different ways of doing bedtime. We start getting her washed/toothbrushed around 7.30/7.45, then PJs. Then for me, it’s read her one or two short stories / chapters, chat with her for a little bit, and then stay with her while she falls asleep. Occasionally she gives me a bit of trouble with getting the teeth done (it used to be a nightmare, but thankfully that one's pretty much a past phase, thank goodness!) and occasionally the falling asleep bit can take 5 or 10 mins longer if she's had too much excitement or something like that - but usually not, and usually she's reliably asleep by 8.30/8.45 ish, so the whole thing takes around an hour, which to me is pretty reasonable for a 4 yo's bedtime. My partner, prefers to get quickly in and out, so it's one story then he leaves her to fall asleep on her own. Which should be absolutely fine, no issue, we just do things differently, right.....? Only to our daughter it's a very big issue. She only ever wants me to put her to bed because she wants me to stay with her and she knows daddy won't. We try to strictly alternate because I believe it's important for everyone's sake that we both do bedtimes. She goes through phases of acceptance, but often, including at the moment, it's a major issue and it means she starts resisting the moment daddy starts the bedtime routine. Her resistance quickly gets met with his impatience, which turns into her screaming, him putting her in her room in the dark, more screaming, back to the bathroom, more resistance, back to the bedroom, more screaming etc. What makes it hardest for me is that invariably she’s screaming “mummy, mummy, mummy, mummy” in a way that I find utterly unbearable, and trying to ignore it just absolutely rips my heart up.

I get that the answer (at least for some) might well be that I just have to let him get on with it the way he sees fit, but honestly, that is a cry that I just can’t ignore, and her going to sleep that way every other night really doesn’t seem healthy for her or for their relationship.

I try to talk to him about going easier on her, or why he doesn’t just stay with her, or maybe try a new way of him reading to her and then me staying with her while she drops off - genuinely I want to find solutions that will make things better for all of us. But I can’t persuade him, but I can’t not try. He’s just irritated with me that I don’t leave him to get on with his way, and he also blames the situation on me because he thinks I shouldn’t be staying with her in the first place. He spent ages trying to tell me I was wrong to do so, and that if I asked any parent, they would tell me the same (so I did ask parents I know and pretty much none of them told me that I’m wrong to stay with her).

So as I can’t persuade him to try anything different, I then go to talk to her, give her a cuddle, calm her down, but still tell her firmly that daddy is putting her to bed. He doesn’t even want me to go to her at all, as he sees it as interfering in his bedtimes and his discipline, and this in itself has led to heated arguments. And of course he thinks she’s “playing” me, but I think I’m aware and strong-minded enough to decide when something is truly causing distress and should be responded to accordingly. When bedtime is this painful I feel like I can’t not do something to try to improve things.

I feel like I’m always playing peacemaker between them, and it feels like I have more chance of getting some self-reflection and compromise out of her than out of him, which from a 4 yo vs a 40-something yo feels all wrong.

Am I just too stuck in my world view to be able to see it from his point of view? Please be brutal with me if needs be - I really want things to be better for our daughter even if it means I have to change.

If you’ve made it to the end……. THANK YOU x1000 and if you have any advice for me THANK YOU x1 million!

Oh my goodness this sounds so very very tough. I'm so sorry you're in this situation.

I agree it must be extremely difficult for your daughter with such disparity between the parenting team. My husband used to be very like this when our first was tiny. I couldn't stand hearing my child crying for me and feeling like it I went in there I was somehow being disloyal to my spouse. It didn't work for me to have to choose my loyalties so we had to come up with a resolution for the good of the marriage and family.

Luckily he's quite open to discussion and agreed to reading a few books I suggested which means now (our children are 5 and 2) we're a more united front most of the time. Would your other half be open to it? He wouldn't listen if it just came from me (not the best trait) but reading books and articles for himself he started to realise how much better it is to encourage good behaviour rather than punishing bad ones.My husband and son (5) have a much improved relationship since he read "how to talk so little kids will listen" and listened to "calmer, happier, easier parenting" as an audiobook. There are still times I keep my mouth shut because there is a certain amount of "different people handle things in different ways and children will adapt to it" but for the most part things are far more harmonious now.

I'm not sure what else to say other than sending solidarity. It sounds like you're approaching this from a much more modern style of parenting whereas his is quite archaic. There's enough material out there for how many people have needed therapy for years after being raised by disciplinarians. I suppose it comes down to what sort of relationship he wants with her long term. One of mutual love and respect or one where she's scared of him, and closed off. But I'm sure you already know all that!

You need to agree to meet in the middle. It sounds like you are telling him what he needs to change but you also need to agree to listen to his way of thinking. There is definitely a middle ground here that can be reached but you both need to compromise and realise that neither of you are 100% right in your approach.

Is he still taking her upstairs at the time you would, such that as it's a shorter routine he's leaving her before she's ready to sleep?

Some compromise is needed here for the same of your daughter. In your position,I'd be gently working towards leaving her awake - she's old enough to learn this without distress, and it's a good idea to tackle before your youngest is getting opinionated about her own bedtimes...

She's also old enough to adapt to parents doing things in different ways. You need to support her in learning this by explaining it to her and helping her to understand that daddy loves her, he just had a different way of doing things.

I do think it is also reasonable for your DH to compromise e.g. bit of a chat, longer stories. Yes, it's his bedtime, but if he's leaving the room a long time before she would easily fall asleep that is a recipe for upset. If you can tell him you are working towards independent setting but need time to do it right, willhe agree to help with that plan?

It's tough. My DH HATED having to stay with our DTwins to get them to sleep - he did his first bedtimeever for them when they were 3. He was very frustrated as my eldest was quite happy to go to sleep independently at that age so he couldn't understand that the boys just had slightly different needs. We had a rockymonth with a lot of arguments!

I try to remind him ofshort and long term goals e.g. we want the children to be getting enough sleep and bed time not to take foreve, but what is out long term goal for ourchildren (confidence, security, appropriate independence) and are we moving towards that as a team?

Gosh @quityojibberjabber i really feel for you. I have a 2.5 year old and my husband and I have different strategies too.

perhaps you need to speak to your husband and ask him what result is he looking for from his child? Going this way will result in a child fearing you.
does it actually work clearly it isn’t working it’s escalating. Having a toddler is a power struggle but so will having a teenager. I firmly believe loving and supporting them through it.
also this must be so confusing for your child every 2 nights being treated so dramatically differently.
your husband needs to do some research. In the interim honestly I would continue to step in and if he kicks off at you I would say to him that he is being obstinate and not changing whereas supporting your child actually gets results
also my husband isn’t good at doing research so what I’ve been doing is sending him articles, instagram clips about toddlers etc and effectively it’s changing his algorithm so he’s being more exposed to this stuff!

he needs to reflect that if it’s a battle he’s the problem not her. She is a child. That’s it

You also need to be aware that she will soon be in school where there will be much less individual negotiation and more having to do what is asked without turning it into a three ring circus.

It does sound like the two of you could do with meeting somewhere in middle of your approaches.

I’m sorry I couldn’t read through all of that. You sound on the permissive side of gentle parenting. Maybe you could read up on authoritative parenting (this isn’t authoritarian, it’s more of I understand that you don’t want to stop playing a put your coat on and it’s making your sad but now I need you put on your coat) and see if it’s a middle ground you could both accept.

This can be sorted by talking & agreeing on a way forward that you both agree on. These things will come up along the way, you need to sit down & come up with a joint approach. I hope he will agree to compromise & you too. Good luck

I agree with the majority of posters that you need to try and meet in the middle.

I will say that I would be very interested to read this post from your DH point of view. You seem very critical of the way he approaches things, but it's also important to realise there are also things you could do differently.

Get some counseling together as parents. I think your husband sounds horrible and I would not tolerate him terrorizing your child.
Your poor daughter.

I agree. I cannot believe he would expect you to not react to your distraught child screaming for her mummy. Or that he would drag her anywhere. I would want to kill anyone putting their hands on my child to drag them. Honestly, I could not stand to be around a man who terrorises that way.

I do think you need to meet in the middle somewhat, but leaving her in the dark really is not acceptable at all. Countdowns and consequences, and even voice raising to a certain extent, are just a question of different parenting styles, but on the leaving a 4 year old in a dark room I wouldn't be budging on that with him at all

He sounds like a bit of a brute. It's a shame he's not open to learning anything because that is one of the most important parts of raising children.

What other areas is he also stubborn about in your marriage?

You need to meet in the middle.

Can't he do the bedtime routine up to the point of storytime and then cuddle to sleep. She would get the strictness to get the practical stuff done and gentle side to have the reading and falling asleep. It would work to both of your strengths.

I do think a 4 year old needs to fall asleep on their own. They have to learn it at some point, why not now? And by you gradually weening her off it....not dad though as that would be too abrupt.

Four year olds are left to fall asleep in dark rooms every single night!

Not as a punishment or revenge for acting up they're not

You both sound quite extreme in your parenting, and it must be very confusing for her. There's a happy medium to be found - it'll take more than a little compromise from both of you but if you make the effort I think ultimately you'll all be happier.

If my partner lifted my child once and put them in a dark roo, tried to use fear to discipline. It would be the last time he would see me or my children.

Discipline does not involve abusive behaviour. I suggest you both attend parenting class and decide and instill an agreed format because that isn't fair on your child if the goal posts keep moving. And no you can successfully discipline without shouting, physically restraining, placing in dark room etc.

To my mind, the most important thing is that you are united in your approach. My inclination is more towards your style. But at 4 and half, you need to be shifting more towards your partner's style imo. She's too old to be negotiating everything. It stops being possible. They certainly will not be doing this at school and other adults in her life won't tolerate it. If she can have a quick story and then fall asleep alone, why would you not do that? Like other people have said, there's a happy medium to be found. It's also not fair on your partner to be the disciplinarian simply because you can't or won't do it.

I agree with everyone else saying that you need to meet in the middle, and that you sound as though you are on the permissive side of ‘gentle parenting’. I’d also recommend ‘How to talk so little kids will listen’ as a good middle ground.

I suspect that the opposing methods mean you are both retreating into the extremes - so you’re getting more permissive and he’s getting more strict, meaning you get more permissive, and so on.

It would be interesting to hear your DH’s point of view - does he feel that you are dragging out basic demands like ‘put your coat on’ by being all understanding and talking through emotions, when sometimes children just need to stop messing about and do what they are asked to do, for example.

One useful piece of advice I read on here was a poster talking about how gentle parenting needs a change of approach as the child gets older. She says that if you were used to the distraction techniques that work on toddlers, when this stops working and you have to find other ways, it feels as if you’re having to be really strict in comparison and a lot of parents shy away from that and end up with problems. The poster’s name is BertieBotts and if you search for her posts, you should be able to find her talking about this.

I realised that this was what I’d struggled with when my DD was 4 and 5 - I hadn’t set out to be a gentle parent but she was mostly an easy-going toddler so all I needed to do was a bit of distraction and tantrums were averted. Then she turned 4, started school, and things got harder. The How to Talk book helped me a lot.

Except he’s not doing it as a punishment. The OP says it’s him trying to get her to stay in bed at bedtime, returning her to the bedroom when she gets up after he leaves her ‘in the dark’ to go to sleep.

It does sound like you've taken opposite and extreme positions.
I would definitely try to compromise and meet in the middle - putting her in her room in the dark to frighten her as a punishment is clearly unreasonable, but you could move towards doing bedtime consistently with your husband and leaving her to fall asleep by herself.
Getting consistent messages and expectations from both of you will be better for her.