I HATE bedtime

[MyBrownEyedHandsomeBoy]

Ds is 3 next week.
I used to love bedtime with DS. It was lovely, after his bath, he'd lie in bed, I'd read him a book then put his tonies box on, kiss him, say goodnight and he'd just nod off to sleep himself by around 7:30. I'd then have the evening to myself to watch Netflix, catch up on work and just relax with a gin. Bliss....

This all went to shit around 3-4 months ago. Now... I have to fight him to get his clothes off and in the bath, once he's in the bath I then have a shouting at because he doesn't want to get out of it! Then he cries and screams the house down because he doesn't want to go to bed. I have to put him in with me to get him to sleep but during this time I'm kicked, he's screaming, I'm slapped round the face and the newest thing is pinching me! This can go on for a long time. Eventually once he's pretty much cried himself to sleep I have to wait til he's in a deep sleep before I transfer him into his room (a lot of the time I'm fucking knackered and just leave him in with me in the spare room)... after all of this bedtime palava I'm stressed and tired and it doesn't help I have zero time for myself these days even though I work full time and I'm about to start my dissertation soon too.

He doesn't nap in the day, he wakes during the night and does not sleep enough at all. He is now asleep by 9pm and awake by 7am which is pretty much the same time as me. As much as I absolutely adore him more than anything in the world. I would just like to have some 'me' time.

Does anyone have the same child as me and can anyone offer any tips on getting this child to sleep earlier and easier please?!

This sounds really hard, I'm sorry to hear about the bedtime struggles.

Does he need a bath every night? Perhaps he doesn't want it any more, but would prefer to spend time with you doing puzzles or watch CBeebies or looking at books etc. Has he got any problems with his room like being scared of the dark?

I know you won't want to hear this, but it sounds like he's really not tired enough at that time. My youngest is 10 and has never needed much sleep. Perhaps try pushing bedtime back to 8.30pm and seeing if he's more ready then?

Do bath every other night, it doesn't have to be every night if it's a battle. And hang in there, I had a phase of this which quite honestly was on and off for about a year. But mine is now 6, and bedtime has been lovely for about 2 years again. I used to be in tears most nights when he was 3!

My son is also nearly 3. We don’t bath him every night and I like him to be asleep by 8pm. He’ll inevitably wake at least once in the night (for reassurance mostly) and then sleep until 7am. I’m certainly would not be settling for pinching, slapping etc. Has anything changed in his routine? Is he getting enough exercise? If my son hasn’t let off his energy by bedtime, we stand no chance.

Try to fully break the routine for a bit - a morning or pre dinner shower/bath? Probably if things are so unsettled trying to get him to settle with you I would try to cold turkey that and put him in his bed, if he's kicking up a fuss say quietly 'bedtime now do you want a book or not?' Then leave if no reply. And just keep returning him to bed? Bearing in mind he's currently kicking screaming etc you when you try to settle him with you (and I assume you're doing this hoping to stop the distress) personally I would try to remove you from the equation. Just repeatedly returning him to bed and not engaging?

I don't claim to be an expert at all! This is just what I would try to create the space between you both when he's lashing, and remove the initial stress trigger of the bath

I suppose he doesn't need the bath every night no, but I think because I've always done it and it was always part of his bedtime routine that's why I've kept it up but maybe I could try and see if cutting it out daily and letting him spend more time with us downstairs will be better.

What I find is that from around 4pm he goes cranky and I can tell he's tired but he fights it, then by the time it's actually bed time he really protests and it just turns into this horrible, repetitive nightly experience.

DH took over this evening, he's more of a CIO parent (I don't believe in it but maybe this is where I'm going wrong?) but he went to sleep fairly soon, but I know he was shattered. Most times when DH takes over he tells me to go and relax/work/do what I've got to do but because I can hear him screaming I can't relax or concentrate

It's tough 😩 I need all the spare time I can get soon once I start this dissertation and I'm worried I'm not gonna get it

Mine is 9 and still like this, didn't nap from 12 months and doesn't ever seem tired. She was wandering round at midnight last night and it looks to be more of the same tonight.
I find anything to make them tired, fresh air and no screens after 5pm helps. As much physical activity as you can bear.
I am exhausted, but it won't be forever, will it? A couple more years and she'll be old enough to wander about all night on her own. I cannot wait.

The only things that have changed which seem to coincide with this new bedtime drama is a) we left his dummy for Santa Xmas eve so he hasn't had it since then (he only had it for bedtime, never had it any other time) and b) I started him at nursery, but only 1 day a week for now, on a Friday, this is to wean him in ready for when he gets his free hours in April

I didn't realise this could have such an impact , if it is this?

Omg really! 😩 I feel for you

Read the Ferber sleep training book. It's a game changer.

I'd do a morning shower instead of the bath.
Try putting him to bed much earlier like 6.30pm or 6 even.
Don't let him fall asleep one place then move him as he will wake confused in the night. Put him to bed where he's going to stay for the night.

If you are getting smacking, pinching and screaming it sounds like its time for him to learn to go to sleep on his own in his own bed. I would try a social story in the morning with pictures of what the bedtime routine is going to be like. Put a big timer on for bathtime so he can see how much time he has left and give plenty of warnings, 1 min left, count down from 10. Then put him in bed and leave him. You dont have to make him sleep, he needs to learn that himself, but you have to give him the opportunity to be able to go to sleep. It sounds like he has reached a point in his development where having another person in the room with him is too stimulating for him to be able to drop off. He also sounds over tired, so I would bring bedtime forward by half an hour or even an hour

My dd1 was like this - cried getting in the bath and then cried getting out. Resisted sleep as long as possible.

You can get away with washing every other night or even every third night if they aren't doing messy activities. Or move the bath earlier. We used to set a timer for when she got out. For some reason she would obey the timer but if we said it was time to get out she would refuse 😂

The other thing to consider is overtiredness. Some kids seem to find it impossible to settle down if they miss the window when they are tired but not too ratty.

I wouldn't let him hit and pinch you tho. Either remove yourself or hold him so he can't do it.

The stage will pass, honest. It's tough but it will end!!!

It gets like autopilot. Something will work for you soon. I bought DD a double bed and I mumsnet while I lie in the dark waiting.

Your LO shouldn't be hitting or pinching. When I have this, I'd just get up and leave the room. The withdrawal was enough to send them into a fit of panic. Only go for 2 minutes but it's enough.

Ahh it's all so hard isn't it?! They could be overtired or undertired, over stimulated or under stimulated... Minefield!

Looks like you've had some good suggestions to try. Oh, if nursery is very new then perhaps that is playing on his mind on other days too. It's a huge thing for them (like us starting a new job).

Really hope things settle for you soon OP.

Hi OP,

When my child started school I had to move his bedtime forward really suddenly from 10.30pm to 6.30pm. I don't know what happened but it just happened and it was mandatory. Nothing else would do.

I think losing the dummy was perhaps too big a change. Maybe you could give it back? Sorry, I have no idea if that is a bad thing or not.

Sleep can be really hard. It was for us. Sorry I don't have easy answers.

Hitting seems like a bad thing, and probably you want to think about the hitting first because that really needs to stop before he gets too big. I know people talk about things being a phase, but speaking from experience, sometimes it actually isn't. So if hitting is a think, then I'd be concentrating on that. Good luck

I wonder if the problem isn’t with the bath itself, but maybe some underlying separation anxiety? (Developmentally he may be at that stage).

sleep is one of the longest times spent apart from the main caregivers for children, and it’s interesting that it’s coincided with removal of the dummy (dummy = source of comfort? does he have another source for comfort in its place?). I wonder if the real cause of the issue is worry over separation from you?

kicking off at bath time and not wanting to get out of the bath might be one way for him to delay having to go to sleep/separation from you?

rather than changing the bath time routine, I wonder if you could find a way of asking what he is worried about when he goes to sleep/ is left in his room alone/bedtime? Or finding way to offer connection? It might be reassuring him that you are still there and are checking in with him - you could offer to pop his tonie on and say you’ll be in every 5 mins to check on him (and hopefully he’ll fall asleep at some point)? It might seem time intensive for you initially but will hopefully help address any separation worries he may have and help in the longer term? It would also be helpful to discuss this plan with him ahead of bedtime, perhaps when he’s feeling calmer so he knows what is going to happen.

a google search might bring up some other suggestions for tackling night time separation anxiety or your health visiting team?

I really like the book “The whole brain child”. It might help give ideas of how you can respond when your LO gets distressed at bedtime.

it won’t be this way forever. It will get better x

Is he the type to enjoy seeing a routine laid out? I made mine little charts for bedtime and morning. It's a piece of A4 paper with the bottom half of it cut into strips. Each strip represents a task to be done. Once done the strip is folded up and sticks with a little velcro dot. They love that they have independence and can tell me what's happening next on the chart. Also the chart order can change so they get some autonomy over their evening/morning.

Both my kids act like yours when overtired. Some nights I have them in bed before 6 and they're always the better for it the next day. Feels crazy getting them ready for bed at 515 or something but they are absolute gremlins when their tired. It's not every night, but bringing bedtime forward has resolved tricky bedtimes on multiple occasions. As a rule they're in bed by 630 and lights out by 7, sometimes it's later sometimes earlier depending on the need. Don't be scared to experiment a bit. Good luck to you!!

When my 3yo had something similar, I read some fantastic advice on here that the parent and the child want two different things - the child wants more time awake and with the parent to enjoy the day, and the parent wants the day to be over so they can relax.

It depends on your child but I found things improved when I acknowledged that ds might be feeling this, and make it known to him that he'd see me tomorrow, we need rest to be able to play again in the morning, and so on.

Not everyone would agree with using logic like this on toddlers but it really worked for me

Thank you so much for these replies. There's some great tips in here. First off I'm going to start every other day baths. Last night he was lying on the living room floor really tired so I took him up to bath him and I found this really woke him up. I'm also going to bring bath time forward too.
I think in my head I think the longer I hold off taking him upstairs, the more tired he will be and will nod off easily (but this hasn't been happening)
I love the idea of the chart. I think he would love this!
I do think separation anxiety is playing a part of it. He is ALL me and as I work full time I suppose in his little head he just wants to spend as much time as possible with me on the evening 🥺 but it's when he's overtired he's playing up and hitting out at me, it's a vicious cycle.
I'm going to make some changes for sure! Thanks for taking the time to respond, really appreciated
😊

ah you're welcome! Realised of COURSE someone else has thought of the chart and you can buy them online https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1459258142/bedtime-routine-chart-printable-folding?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_uk_en_gb_e-toys_and_games-toys-learning_and_school&utm_custom1=k_CjwKCAiAxaCvBhBaEiwAvsLmWDUolR0OAPXgnYjtCJi_O9TojPHqko0rkOwvcRYavIBpVucfYWhgEhoCqZgQAvD_BwE_k&utm_content=go_12603394295_125447605888_508814568695_pla-352859725646_c__1459258142engb_102858184&utm_custom2=12603394295&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAxaCvBhBaEiwAvsLmWDUolR0OAPXgnYjtCJi_O9TojPHqko0rkOwvcRYavIBpVucfYWhgEhoCqZgQAvD_BwE

but only took me a few minutes to draw up my own!

@MyBrownEyedHandsomeBoy We've just gone through something similar with our son (3). He's been the perfect unicorn child with his sleeping since 12 weeks old (7pm-7am). Then three weeks ago we took away the baby gate in his bedroom as he's now tall enough to climb over it and suddenly bed time became a big fight with him repeatedly getting out of bed and not actually falling asleep until 9. He then started waking in the night and trying to climb into our bed which he's never done before. Admittedly this isn't as bad as what you're going through but I totally sympathise with the feeling that you're missing the time that was previously reserved for downtime for yourself as we lost a big chunk of that too.

The sticker chart has been what's worked for us and we've seen a big improvement over the last three days. I think time also helped as he's eventually realised that bedtime hasn't changed even though the gate is no longer there.

Hang in there!

My 2.5 year old is exactly like this, except he always has been. We've never experienced the calm bit you talk about, so I guess I can't miss what we never had!

I'm not sure I have any advice, just sympathy. It's incredibly draining and there is no time for yourself. The thought of the wrestle with the undressing, putting pjs on, teeth cleaning, face washing (I don't have it in me to bath him every night) brings me out in cold sweats.

I work and my husband is away a lot. I am always wondering how other people do everything, because being stuck upstairs from about 7.30pm to morning means nothing else gets done then. This then impacts on the next day's workload.

It's relentless and rarely recognised that children's sleep patterns have so much impact on parents lives. My son wakes what seems like a thousand times a night and is still nightfeeding. I'm sure people would tell me to stop, but that's easier said than done when you're already exhausted and know you can stop the screaming by simply flopping a boob out.

I hope they cut us both a break soon. We deserve it!