Boundaries and discipline with DC4 and 6

[Newbie1011]

I’m trying to do better at enforcing boundaries for my dd6 and dd4. They aren’t bad girls - both apparently perfectly behaved at school - but at home it’s more mixed! DD6 is obsessed with TV and sugary foods, and does occasionally display spoilt/ entitled behaviour which DD4 is starting to ape and which I am keen to nip in the bud. I really believe in disciplining kids and don’t want to raise a couple of spoilt brats, I suppose it’s the practical application that I’m struggling with a bit - and it feels more complex at this age than it did with toddlers, for example.
I’m keen to hear how in very practical terms others manage boundaries with kids this age.
Do you, for example, have fixed ‘house rules’ around things like: screen time, not leaving the table until others have finished dinner, rudeness, hitting your sibling etc and if so, what are these, and how are they communicated and enforced?
I think in the past I’ve fallen into the trap of allowing too much screen time because I’m so exhausted. They don’t have iPads or anything like that but they do watch too much TV.
Lately I’ve started enforcing a day or half day of no TV for incidents of rudeness or hitting, and once for poor behaviour/ not listening to the teacher in a swimming lesson (was really embarrassing). Sometimes no pudding after dinner for similar.
Previously it was time out followed by talking about it and an apology, but I had started to feel this was just a bit of a cop out / non punishment for DD6, whereas taking away her tv time is something she really values and so feels more concrete and like more of a ‘consequence’?
What do people think about this and does anyone have any tips/ advice on what has worked for them?
Also, would you punish a six year old if they refused to do their reading or homework? Or just let them live with the consequences (failing a spelling test) and hope they become more self motivated?
Grateful for any advice!

Have you ever considered more of a carrot rather than stick approach? I was raised rather how you appear to be parenting, and my instinctual parenting style is very similar. But it wasnt creating a harmonious household. In fact it was rather giving them something to rebel against d compete over. I read "calmer happier easier parenting", "how to talk so kids will listen" and "the book you wish your parents have read" and it's revolutionised our household. The books focus on giving energy and attention to the behaviours you want to see rather than "rewarding" less than ideal behaviours with your time. Also encourages children to see their achievements as their own rewards rather than doing things because they're afraid of the consequences of not doing it. So helps them to become responsible for their own happiness and contentment long term.

Following with interest 😅

Thanks @Beansandneedles . I have read 'the book you wish your parents had read' and found it very helpful around talking to the kids and all the stuff about rupture and repair. Also understanding my own triggers and where these come from. I do do a lot of positive reinforcement of good behaviours, definitely and I would say on the whole their behaviour is OK. It's more that I realised that I was doing a specific thing around telling them 'no, don't do that' and then not following up with proper consequences if they just did it anyway. And I think that that does cause issues with them not listening to you/ taking boundaries seriously. I totally get the case for positive reinforcement but surely it doesn't work in every scenario (and this is sort of what I mean about practical application?) So for example, my DD6 is watching TV and I say: 'five more minutes and then we need to turn it off', and then five minutes later, I say 'OK, time to turn the TV off please', and she just ignores me, refuses, has a tantrum. What is the appropriate response?
I also agree that in an ideal world I want my daughters to see achievements as their own rewards rather than doing things because of the consequences of not doing them. But does that mean I never force my DD6 to practice her spellings? Left to her own devices she would never practice them - but her spelling is generally quite bad, and the school sets spellings every two weeks and I feel like the school's expectation is that we support them to learn the spellings- should I just ignore this in the interests of her 'developing independent study habits?!' it seems a bit unrealistic at age six.
I will read those books you suggest though, thank you - I'd been meaning to read the second one as someone else also suggested it.

And- glad I'm not the only one @fishstiks 😂

Ah I see, thank you for the examples. They help! Are you on facebook? There's a 'how to talk' group where people often write scenarios like this so others can coach them through how to handle it. It's been super helpful for creative ideas. In your example about the TV I would turn it off rather than asking her to (as we can assume she isn't going to want to do it so creating a battle ground which could be avoided) and then be understanding about her disappointment ("it can be hard when something you're enjoying is over"), and give her options of what she can do next "Would you like to play with x toy, read a book together or should I help you with your spellings?".

With the spellings, I'd sit down with her and have a chat about it at a neutral moment. Let her come up with some ideas of how and when she would like to do them. Together can you make it funny in some way, could spellings be done in the bath, or sitting on the kitchen table? Have you seen 5 minute mum? she has all sorts of games which help with this sort of thing without them feeling like work. But that really depends on how much energy you have to devote to the task. We've found it great to have a game once a week or so with the key words for that week, and it's helped a lot with his willingness to do the work at other times as he's gotten better at recognising words from the games which means he feels better about himself at reading time!

At the end of the day I'd be saying something (or indeed have said this, but about reading) like "I'm on your team, and I'm here to help you, but this is your job. I feel like I'm nagging you about it and it's becoming something which gets you mad at me which feels unfair as it's not my responsibility to make you do it. But I will always always help you to do it, so why don't we come up with some ways which might make it easier/more fun for you? We can do this as a team". We did this with reading and discovered my son is usually knackered after school and the last thing he wants to do is homework, but he's an early bird who is usually up bright eyed and bushy tailed. So now we usually read before breakfast. Wouldn't work for every family but for him and me it's our time together and it's ideal!

Hope this helps.

Also just in case it's helpful on your points about rules....We do have house rules about screen time, but they're rather strict. The TV is on if:

1. Someone in the house is ill to the point that an adult is 'out of action' either because they're helping the sick person or because it's them who is sick
2. There's a national event we want to watch, mostly sport, like the olympics or rugby.
3. We've spent the majority of that day outside somewhere and are all in need of some downtime. Even then I usually have a timer on/I turn it off just before dinner and that's it for the day.
4. There's been some incredibly good behaviour, at which point I offer 2 or 3 rewards they can choose from. Screen time is usually one of the options.

I wouldn't have a TV in the house at all, so the above is a compromise. My husband would be far more lenient but I can't stand the dramatics when it goes off, so it's easier for me not to switch it on in the first place.

Otherwise the family rules are

1. Treat each other with kindness and respect
2. If something is in the wrong place, put it away
3. Respect belongings, both yours and others

Most scenarios can be covered by those in one way or another. If a sibling is hit I always attend to the person who has been hit first. I say things like 'that can't have been nice, you didn't want that to happen' and when I know they're okay I go to the other. Mostly I say something like 'I bet you're feeling pretty bad about yourself right now, you didn't really want to hurt your sister/brother' and that's all it takes for them to admit they shouldn't have done it. We then work out how to make amends. My big one by now is pretty good at resolving things without me needing to give ideas these days.

The rudeness is more tricky. I say a lot of 'I don't like to be spoken to like that' but more often than not it's having the presence of mind to realise what's causing the rudeness. Are they hungry? Tired? Something else going on? Then it's the 'calmer, happier, easier' techniques of 'you're speaking to me in a polite way, it's much easier to help you when you're speaking to me respectfully' (sometimes this book sounds SO patronising, but it works!)

Very aware the above makes me sound like I've swallowed those books. I don't get it right every time believe me. The other day I had to put myself in a timeout because they were driving me up the wall. The pair of them were downstairs sobbing because I'd stormed upstairs to calm down. I only came out when they started to say 'We'll be happy we promise' because at that point I was terrified I was creating some sort of core memory that they need to be people pleasers in order to get maternal attention. Not my finest moment. But luckily rupture and repair techniques can be used all the time. We had a chat and I hope I fixed it. Certainly apologised for losing my temper!

Wow, this is all such helpful advice - thank you so much.