DD(6) lying - Is this too strict?

[SurvivingTheSeasons]

DD lied to me 3 times yesterday, once I caught a flicker of it but the other times she did not show a flicker. The third time I've actually forgotten about but me and DH were shocked at how easily she's done it.

1 - she was showing me a book that she'd taken to school and it had paint on it, she said her friend had used a paint pen in it. I said "oh that colour looks like our one," (one my youngest had found ours and drawn on a teddy with so I distinctly recall the exact colour) "I wouldn't be angry but I just want to check you didn't take one in did you? Because your school don't allow that and you'll end up in trouble at school." She said she hadn't taken it in and actually her friend had taken her own one in.

When I said "OK but when I check your bag and coat, you don't have any paint pens in there do you?" She paused, had to think about it and smiled telling me there's none because she'd already said it was her friend who took hers in.

DH later said that, that morning he asked her to take out 3 paint pens he saw her put in her bag. I can only think she's had more and given some away. She did something similar with £10 she took to school once. The issue with this is 1) they were her brother's Christmas present and, 2) she's most likely lied to me but I can't prove it without getting her to admit it and tell me if they were her brother's pens.

If she does own up to it, we had planned to go to a place over the weekend with a different friend. DH and I had discussed saying that if we're lying about our friends, we can't go this weekend as a consequence because honesty is important and we shouldn't blame things on our friends. I'm not sure if this is direct enough consequence and had planned on taking DD to the shop and getting her to replace the pens/buy DS something else out of her pocket money.

2 - she came downstairs for the millionth time at 9.30pm and said she found her kindle in her room and asked if I could charge it and whether she could have it for the journey home when she's picked up today. I asked if she'd been on it in her room, she said no and handed me a charging cable and said she'd just found it in her room and tried to charge it but it wasn't working. So she asked again if she could go on it for the journey home from school and I was confused but said "yeah, sure".

When she went to bed I asked DH if he'd left a charging cable accessible and he was confused. I told him she'd had her kindle upstairs but he said when he took her up to get her ready for bed, she had nothing with her and thought she'd preplanned it by taking it up prior, that's when I remembered her insistence on going upstairs prior to that. She'd stashed it in her room. I looked at the activity and could see she was on it at 9pm playing a game and watching videos.

Now, as a child I used to hide under the covers and play when I should have been asleep but my issue is 1) it's an internet connected device and 2) she's lied about it.

(I will say we have parental locks on the kindle usually and it automatically shuts off at 6pm, time limits on non educational apps with a requirement of 15mins of reading before it allows access to games/videos. The other day there was an issue and I had to take off the controls because it wasn't showing the books to allow her to read first so she couldn't use it at all, I'd obviously forgotten to put them back on.)

I'm going to have a conversation about lying in general and why she's not allowed internet devices in her room in an age appropriate way. We've paused the kindle witch is how it will be for the next week so even if she does find it, it won't allow her access to it.

Are any of these too strict? She's a good child usually and I want her to be honest with us so she doesn't need to lie. If we go overboard with consequences, I feel she'll just find different ways of deception.

Bump

It all sounds scarily intense.
You back her into corners.
Relax. If you think she’s done something wrong say so don’t trick her like you did with the pens and kindle.

It does sound quite intense. I would make sure you tell her that you are taking the kindle off her because she lied about having it - not that she was on it in the first place.
same with the pens, then she doesn’t feel she needs to hide things and lie for fear of the repercussions.
next time she doesn’t lie about something she shouldn’t be doing, thank her for being honest with you, and go lightly (give her a warning) so it’s blatantly obvious the consequences are for the lying not the act itself

I get it sounds intense but we've never actually had to give any consequences because she's actually a really good child. We just wanted to nip it in the bud with the lying because it's unlike her.

We will be clear that it's for the lying and not being on it. If anything, that's just my fault for not putting the parental lock back on. I get she was just tempted to go on it.

The bit about checking her bag and coat is because we check them nightly due to her putting letters in there and forgetting.

She usually tells me when she's done something she shouldn't. She was told off at school for talking when she shouldn't have been last year (the teacher didn't actually tell me, DD did) and I said I appreciated her telling me. We didn't tell her off.

I wouldn't want to make it a big confrontational scene, I would just let her know that I know. 'You haven't got any more of those pens in your bag today have you, if you get caught at school you will be in real trouble.' 'Did I forget to disable your Kindle again I'd better double check it before you put it away.'

OP I do think you're being too strict here. It's really normal for kids this age to tell fibs. These aren't malicious lies - they're just fibs to avoid getting into trouble. I think if you come down too hard on her it will make her double down.

I found at that age my DD also told some lies.
She grew out of it after a few months.

I think they are only just learning that they can 'lie' and people don't know.

They suddenly grasp the fact that they can do stuff and other people can't see.

And they learn they have control over their own world for first time.

That they have separate decision making powers to other people.

She's testing the boundaries and in some ways you don't want a total rule-following cap-doffer people-pleaser mouse for a kid.

I'd kind of keep it light.

I wouldn't use the big bad stick of 'you'll get in trouble at school' instead I'd use a positive reason like - the teacher doesn't want paint pens at school because the paint gets everywhere and the books get marked, can you see why that is?'

Kids sometimes do this as well if there has been a big change in their surroundings or family and they feel out of control. It's as if they say to themselves 'well I can exert power over this little thing like taking the pens to school'.

I don't think it's too strict, although the weekend thing sounds a bit confusing in a way that asking her to replace the pens out of her own money is not, so personally I would not bother even mentioning the weekend trip. Agree with a previous poster that explaining why the teacher doesn't want paint pens at school is sensible rather than just saying she will be in trouble.

I don't think there is much point right now in trying to get her to own up. I don't think there's any point in forcing the issue by backing her into a corner either.

With respect to the kindle I would be telling her straight that you can see what she has done and not only is it not OK but also it is worse because she lied. You need to be very clear and tell her that pausing her use for a week or whatever is the consequence of using the device without permission and x is the consequence of lying about it. Maybe once the pause wears off, she can only use it in the same room as you or something until you are confident she is not lying about it or trying to sneak time when she is not allowed? Which means of course she has to have the volume off and it won't be as fun because you don't want to listen to it. Or something like that. I guess you will know what might work for her.

I always used to say that everyone 'makes mistakes' or gets carried away and does things they should not but in general people are much kinder to people who own up to their mistakes. I honestly think this is true. And when DD owned up to something she should not have done we used to discuss the best way to fix it together. This was quite interesting as she was often harder on herself than I would have been so I got to be the good cop by saying 'I'm so pleased you've told me the truth so how about this less awful consequence?'

I do think lying about stuff is incredibly common at this age and she will probably mostly grow out of it whatever you do.

Lying is a completely normal and healthy stage of development. Clever, empathetic children often have a bigger ‘lying phase’ than others. If you want her to be honest with you then give her plenty of space to be honest and, as a PP said above, just call her out when she does lie and move on. The massive deal you are making about it currently will only make her more sneaky, not less.