DD4.5 bedtime - what are we doing wrong?

[JuneWind]

Help appreciated! DD is 4.5 and bedtimes are becoming progressively worse. We have had the same pre-bedtime routine pretty much since she was a baby. Dinner, then bath approx 6.30pm with little bro, pjs, story and then sleep time by 7.15pm ish.

The last few months have involved hours of running around, shouting/screaming for mummy and daddy to sit in her room, playing with teddies, on and on. I wouldn’t mind if she was quiet and eventually got herself to sleep but she isn’t and it is so draining.

We’ve tried a later bedtime, can’t go much earlier really. We’ve tried reward charts and removing privileges like her Tonies box (which just encourages her to stay up doing shows!).

I don’t like the person I become when it takes so long to get her to sleep. It’s also now affecting her behaviour during the day as I think she’s so overtired.

She is still awake now after a start time of 7.15 and is pretty much hysterical.

So if anyone has any advice as to what we can try, that would be great!

Have you asked her why she doesn't feel able/ready to sleep?

I remember a period where we made the house extremely boring at bedtime, so they weren't missing out by going to sleep.

Is she becoming aware that mummy and daddy get lots of time after her bedtime that she feels she’s missing out on?

What’s her daytime routine?

Have you tried letting her have a few “quiet”
figures at bedtime to listen to the Tonies box herself until she falls asleep? Do you stay with her till she’s asleep?

if bedtime is taking too long: is she ready for bed? I’ve a 4&3 year old. Routine is upstairs for bath at about 8pm (which counts as quiet play time as I’m lucky and mine love it). We set up clothes and uniform for the next day. Them do pj’s (to stop this taking hours we introduced a PJ song - song only off YouTube on a tonie: they dress themselves as a “race” to it). Then a book each. Teeth also has a song! Then bed is tuck them in. Hugs. And leave. Lights off. They share a room and often chat to each other for a little bit before sleeping. Typically they are asleep by about 8:45pm ish. BUT no battles and actually I like that time with them.

Would any of this work for you? Could you build in distractions - or more choice - so they are not fighting you for control?

Ps. Not trying to suggest later! Know mine are low sleep needs!! We also work so have a later eve routine than others who are home post school. Was describing more to show that oddly for me, adding “extras” ie games around getting undressed. Choosing pj’s. Songs for things/a race. Made our lives a lot easier at bedtime!

7.15 seems early to me!
My 4yr old is asleep at 8. Before that we do a fair few stories which calms everything down.

Also if my son is faffing about whilst I'm trying to read a book I tell him "if you don't lie down I won't be able to read the story and I'll just switch the light off". Usually always gets him to lie down!

But if this is your routine since a baby isn't it likely that she just needs less sleep than before and so needs a later bedtime or a way to offload energy an hour or so before bed?

The last few months have involved hours of running around, shouting/screaming for mummy and daddy to sit in her room, playing with teddies, on and on.

How are you responding to all of that?

Just turned 5 and he goes to sleep at 8.
We've put it back later by 15 mins every so often when he starts to distract from going to sleep.

7:15/7:30 is a completely fine time for a 4 year old who’s been awake since at least 7 am and on the go all day.
How have you been responding to the antics?
Personally- I’d be making sure that she has everything she needs, drink, favourite toys, lots of cuddles and then I’d be using the rapid return technique and being very firm about it.
straight back to bed every time she’s out. No engagement or response to begging, pleading or crying. Gentle but firm and consistent. Don’t give in.
Some people will say I’m mean and cruel but at this age I’d say that a NT child is testing boundaries and finding out what kinds of behaviour get her certain things. She needs to learn that this kind of carry on gets her nothing.
This is assuming that there are no extenuating circumstances and she has had all her needs met before she’s put to bed.