DC15 - help with boundaries, not talking yo me for 6 days now

[Allwelcone]

...because apparently I didn't stop the family being rude and teasing them when they were 11. Yup 5 yes ago.

(DC is non binary but female at birth, we have stuck by and supported thar step)
I'm now being blanked and they are refusing to come and sit with us (dh, me, ds17 and ds13) for the evening meal, the one time we all are together.

Things had been great recently, but then ds17 laid in to them for "being a dick" for having loud music playing at headphones at evening meal, andsadid their attitude is disrespectful generally. All of which is true sadly eg running off 5 mins into the meal, rude replies etc.

Unfortunately I was knackered and poorly and didn't intervene as quickly as maybe I should. Dc15 ran off in humiliation.
So what xan I do? Anything? Nothing? All ideas welcome. I've asked if we can be friendly again and told them they are loved and appreciated. They cried and said they don't feel like they belong in this family.

Thanks for reading, if you have been.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose well ds17 was genuine, I do know he had the right to speak as he saw. I'm not after him to apologise, just wanted to see how he felt about how he delivered his opinion.

If there are other issues at play here then should they be roughly and loudly pointed out in public?
I do think there's something "more" here and have done for years tbh. Just coming to terms with it now, with the help of this thread.

Well that's great he identified what he needed.
I don't think we're there yet with my dc, it's not drink and drugs, more just a weird/sad expression of unhappiness imo.
Yes I do exhibit tough love as in not giving too much time to self indulgence, not rising to drama lama party nvitations etc.

Trust your instincts OP, if you think there is more to this there probably is. And no amount of tough love will help until you get to the bottom of it. You sound like you’re really trying to understand your DC.

I'd assumed you were at home not out in public?

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose yes we weren't eating out or anything we were at home but they had to deal with welling up in front of other sibs me amd dh.

Just had a chat with them. More tears but honesty. I've had to agree to them coming down to eat with us when they feel able, and we will mention we wd like to explore adhd diagnosis when we see the gp next week.
I can't push anything, they said they have huge anxiety at school amd described it in detail, sounds miserable.

Our family, unfortunately for this dc, is full of huge confident loudmouths who make terrible jokes about eachother to eachother as a way of showing love.
One such "joke" was made my older sis in the holidays ablut this dc having 'an awful personality', I've just learned.

Thank you for all your responses x

You're making the Boundary about your child's behaviour. That IS NOT a boundary; it's a request.

A Boundary is about your own behaviour.

When you do X, I will do Y.

You are making no request on if X happens or how it happens. But you are stating that every time X happens, you will always do Y.

So they can recognise when they are being hurt/offended, but not when they are being rude and offensive?

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose it would seem so. Probably to discuss with the gp, I am at sea here. They will need to learn to survive and thrive in a world where this behaviour does not make anyone including themselves, happy or fulfilled or useful to society.

Well done for having a good chat. I'm sure they feel better for unburdening themselves. It sounds like you did a great job. It must be exhausting and upsetting for you.
I guess maybe the family could together make some ground rules for meals (if that doesn't cause too much stress). If meals are an important goal for you.
I suppose the reason I say this is is because I have 2 adult family members who often won't sit at meals or leave early....and my mother gave up enforcing it. And now that I have children I want them to learn table manners and have family time with extended family....it makes it confusing and inconsistent for them when uncle X is allowed to get up halfway through the meal and leave or not join us despite being in the same house. There is a diagnosis but I don't think avoiding people helps that person. I do think it is a good battle to pick because eating together is important for social skills and family bonding if it can be encouraged to go well (even if ultimately there is a diagnosis). Not eating together can be a bit of a slippery slope....not always I'm sure but I do think it's important.
Very best of luck with it all. You sound like a caring parent who really wants the best for your children xx

Just be careful that you don't drive your elder child away by seemingly favouring the sensitive one.

I would suggest that you have a look at some workbooks around anxiety -

We found the anxiety workbook for teens useful.

Yes, her behaviour at the moment will not help her survive or thrive, but if she is anxious then members of her family calling her out on it is unlikely to improve things.

I would suggest talking to your 17 year old and trying to make mealtimes a supportive environment- if he does feel the need to tell her her behaviour is shit then not at meal times.

Therapy may help but my teen was so anxious that she was not really able to access it; it was only in her 20s that she really was able to use it.

She wound up on anti anxiety pills which helped and then she was diagnosed with adhd and is medicated for that which also helps.

However, I do feel obliged to point out that if she is regularly being told stuff like she has an awful personality etc etc then her anxiety sounds like a perfectly reasonable response to really quite unpleasant comments.

Our family, unfortunately for this dc, is full of huge confident loudmouths who make terrible jokes about eachother to eachother as a way of showing love.
One such "joke" was made my older sis in the holidays ablut this dc having 'an awful personality', I've just learned.

This actually sounds toxic. It is only a joke if everyone is laughing, if not it is bullying. I think you need a reset and some ground rules about what is acceptable behaviour and how to show love more kindly.

This dynamic is not uncommon in families - the group is loud, outspoken, teases each other. The most sensitive in the family who doesn't find it enjoyable gets labelled as 'sensitive' 'difficult' 'weird' 'uptight' 'anxious'.

Often the person who really struggles with the group dynamic will try out ways to change themselves, as they are uncomfortable.

It might be that some family therapy could be helpful, if the dominant family group are capable of not closing ranks against the complainant.

This comment I do think we hurt their feelings by some (very gentle) teasing. I went after them to say sorry. Minimal resilience, not very confident sadly.
We adjusted our approach and been a lot less full on. I have found them very hard to handle since year dot. makes it sound like they may be not able to feel safe/comfortable in the family. The dominant group may need to reflect a bit as the desire not to be teased is a natural and healthy one.

TLDR: It sounds a bit like the family variant of 'it's just banter' has been going on for a long time?

@LightSwerve totally spot on. As soon as the word "banter" popped in my head when I was reflecting on the situation this week I realised something has gone very badly wrong. I feel mortified.

@Mumof3onetwothree food for thought no pun intended. Yes meal times are really important to me so I will have that as an eventual goal.
How we get there is another question!

@MammaTo and @SkyFullofLights agree the 17yo is not to blame as such. I have gently told him that telling the truth, yes, but with kindness, may be a worthy goal to aim for in life.

I think it is OK to say to your family 'I've been reflecting and I don't think we are kind enough to each other'. You don't have to be mortified but it does sound like you're right something needs to change.

Protecting ourselves from things that hurt is natural and to be encouraged - these are natural boundaries. So I understand why the 15yo is behaving as they do given your later explanations of the family interactions.

How do you feel the family would react if you tried to introduce some more respectful house rules around personal remarks etc.?

@LightSwerve yes totally. This family has to work for everyone.
A certain degree of 'pretending' or tolerating is always needed in many social situations, but overall family mealtimes should be a helpful refuge where ideas can be expressed, plans are, news delivered.
I will have a think about how to make them better for dc15.