End of tether with split nights - sleep training/routine tweak??

[ecossegirl91]

Will keep this as succinct as possible. Have an almost 15m old doing split nights for the past 3.5/4months so most definitely no longer in the “phase/regression” category.

everything I read online tells me that 15m require between 11-15hours sleep in 24 hours. I’m aiming for 13 which doesn’t sound unreasonable? 11 at night, 2 in the day, or does it? Am I expecting too much sleep??)

he’s on one nap, 12-2pm which I wake him from. Asleep for around 7.30pm, wakes around 7 BUT because of the 2/2.5 hour wakes in the night is getting between 9.5-10ish hours a night. I’d be fine with an 6/6.30am wake up (doesn’t need to be 7) had he not been awake for hours in the night time.

everything else I read online tells me split nights is due to lack of sleep pressure meaning either too much day sleep (2 hours really?!) or too early bedtime (7.30 - really?!)

at the moment for naps and night sleep, he is cuddled till drowsy and placed in cot, never been a problem but maybe he can’t get back to sleep himself?

so I feel I have the below options -

1. he only needs 10 hours a night so bedtime at 8.30pm (seems late for his age and long after his nap ends at 2pm… can’t really push it later than 12 at the moment)
2. cut the nap to 60-90 mins from 2 hours - again this seems light for his age and I’m already waking him at 2 hours
3. lack of independent falling asleep causing this issue, no routine change required and we need to look at sleep training?

worth nothing he’s at nursery 3x per week and naps can be 1-2 hours long but usually 1.5 - still does a split night.
done bed at 8pm a few times, still a split night therefore less overall sleep.

what the heck do I do? In surviving on 5 hours sleep spread over 2 2.5 hour blocks and I am struggling.

he isn’t happy during these night wakes and is upset / fussy.

Try and go for 12 hours at night and 1-1.5 hours in the day.

If you need to do a slightly earlier bedtime then do that, so 6:30/7 not 7/7:30. That can sometimes help in itself.

Once you're out the habit of split nights then you could lengthen the nap again if you want.

Also, make sure he's had a lot to eat - the calorie requirements of toddlers are huge and can really effect their sleep.

You need the afternoon wake period to be longer than the morning one. Either earlier nap or put him to bed later. 7.30 is fairly early for a child who still naps.

@cheerfulsunday ok, so he’s at nursery today, will defo not do a 2 hour nap so will aim for asleep by 7. He eats really well - last nights dinner for example he had potatoes, corn on the cob and almost a whole salmon fillet!

@Iwishiwasasilentnight 7.30 is an early bed for a 14.5 month old? I thought 7-8pm was the sweet spot?

That's great. Maybe he needs a second course? Worth a try!

I had to do this with mine!

We do usually offer a yogurt or custard m/rice pudding after every dinner but he seemed full last night so didn’t bother!

Anyone else have thoughts? Happy to hear other 14.5m/15m routines

I would say this sounds more like habit rather than something wrong with your routine. That sounds normal nap time and a decent bed time too. How is your bedtime routine? What happens during the wake up? Is it milk and cuddles? Depending on what currently happens, try make it as boring as possible and if you are giving milk I would try and stop that too. Did you ever do any sleep training?

@Dairymilk99 hi - yes everything I’ve read online suggests that it’s an ok bed time and nap length! We have never sleep trained (not against it, just wasn’t sure it would help as everything suggests split nights are due to over sleep?)
no milk during the wake up as we realised it doesn’t shorten the wake period, we sometimes offer a sip of water. During the wake, sometimes he wants held, sometimes he wriggles away but he never really settles in the cot even with lots of pats, strokes etc it’s usually once it hits 2-2.5 hours he eventually gets cosy and drifts back off

bed time routine is dinner, play, bath, milk then sleeping bag on and stories. He then gets drowsy in arms before being placed in cot

First non split night in weeks!! I’m sure it’s not the end though 😂

so he slept around 1.5 hours at nursery, fell asleep in bed at 7.30 and woke at 6am.

so that’s 10.5 over night and 1.5 in the day - 12 hours total

still seems a little light doesn’t it?

Follow the baby not the books - is he happy during the day? Showing any signs of tiredness? If he is fine, he’s getting enough sleep and you want to trim the nap further. Mine was doing 1.5 hrs max at that age, on the lower end of sleep needs.

I think definitely option 3.

Have just been through this with 17 month old who had split nights for 2 months. Changed nap length, bedtime, no effect. Used sleep consultant. Now sleeping through for 3 weeks and is a much happier toddler.

Address the independent self settling, withdraw any support (bottle, cuddles, patting) you are giving in the night. Stick with it, be committed it will take a couple of weeks to change their body clock habits. Use a sleep consultant if you can afford.

Sympathy though it is brutal.

@Starrysky2023 did you do specific sleep training?

Yes we did. PM me if you want more information and I can tell you what worked for us.

he isn’t happy during these night wakes and is upset / fussy

This is the crucial bit. There are 2 camps with split nights. Babies that are awake and happy and babies that are awake and sad.

A happy baby has run out of sleep pressure (either due to too much napping or too early a night) and therefore wants to be awake.

Generally, a sad baby wants to be asleep but doesn’t have the skills to put themselves asleep when they wake up. By midnight/1am/2am they have had enough sleep to take the edge off and wake fully up for a hour or so, but they are not happy about it.

Id work on independent settling in your shoes first. Your schedule seems fine for a 15 month old. The only thing I’d maybe consider is making the nap 11:30-1:30 just to get a bit more sleep pressure before bed, but that’s not a definite, just something you could try.

@ecossegirl91 I'm in a really similar situation with my 16 month old. He's also at nursery 3xweek and similar naps to yours. Bedtime is between 7 and 7.30pm. He has been doing split nights for about 2 months. We've been really firm with not giving milk anymore and going back to sleep training and now he's switched to early waking instead 😭he's waking at 4 - 5am ready to start the day. I don't have the answers but sending support from another mum going through this!

Everything I read online is either for babies or older toddlers who understand things like day clocks that tell them when they can get up. This is a really tricky age when they are much more aware than little babies but can't yet understand or reason about what we say to them. Urgh. From tonight I am going to track his nursery naps and what time he wakes up in the morning to see if it's related. I've also set the heating to come on at night in case the cold is waking him. I might also try putting some favourite toys within reach of his cot so he can play if he wakes up. Not sure if that'll work but it's one of the only things we've not tried.

@Givemepickles its so hard isn’t it 🙈I’m so tired!

I also thought about starting to keep a sleep diary to see if I noticed any patterns but my husband is very keen to try some sleep training so I might get him to crack on with that and I’ll sit downstairs with my headphones in 🤣🙈