Would you be concerned something is not right with DS(8)?

[Starrydream]

This will be long sorry, I hope someone can bear with me please.

I feel something is not ‘right’ with DS(8); either that or he’s bone idle lazy. I just don’t know what to think and whether something isn’t right with his understanding and comprehension with some basic things in life. Example:

Still wets the bed at 8. We are on the 3rd referral since age 6 to the Enuresis Clinic and he simply will not follow the nurse’s advice of the min amount he must drink daily to stretch the bladder. He will come home from school having drunk 1cm of water, even on days when he’s had Athletics before school or PE. The bed wetting plan will not work if he does not drink and he simply doesn’t understand that if he goes on a residential in y6 and others find out he still wets the bed they will bully him etc. He simply won’t help himself. The nurse has tried so many ways to explain to him, and given him tips for drinking throughout the day but you would have a better conversation with a brick wall.

Won’t blow his nose and still uses his sleeve, and wipes mouth during/after eating with the neck area of a top - will rarely use a tissue/napkin which are always provided.

Either won’t wipe himself after a number 2, or makes a poor effort. He freaks out at the sight of poo, and no amount of explanation and showing him how to wipe can get through the importance of learning this most basic, vital skill. His underpants can be horrid, and telling him one day other kids will smell poo on him has no effect.

He has no qualms about kicking off in public if he doesn’t get what he wants. Pretty well-behaved at home, it’s just in public - always been like this since a toddler. I’m thinking this is probably manipulation to get a toy bought for him or sweets? DH is terrible for giving into him, bit of a ‘Disney dad’ tbh, whereas he doesn’t get away with that from me, but unfortunately due to DH’s long working hours I bear the brunt of this behaviour when out and about. As a result he’s become an entitled child, and will say awful things to me or hit me if he doesn’t get what he wants when outside of home. I tell him off and leave the situation, discuss when he’s calm what he could have said/done instead, removed privileges like his Switch etc but the cycle just repeats.

Very fussy eater since age 1 and I’m starting to wonder if he has mild sensory issues. However, his behaviour around food really riles me - he starts shouting that ‘I didn’t ask for that for dinner’ and ‘I hate that, don’t give that to me,’ ‘ I don’t want that for dinner today.’ He has run off screaming up to his room. Etc, and on it goes. We’ve tied all the fussy eater strategies, the dietician and OT said this behaviour is a choice (when he saw them aged 4-5). He always has food on his plate that he likes with other food (which he never tries); he has no interest in helping cook, no point in getting him to help meal plan because he only wants crap. I just can’t get the behaviour to stop.

When eating meals with other people he will become loud and start saying stupid things or burbling nonsense (this is not like him). His cutlery skills are poor for his age (I suspect Dyspraxia, also due to some issues we have at school), and trying to get him to demonstrate basic table manners is sometimes an uphill battle (he can be fine sometimes, I don’t think he copes eating with other people as this is when these behaviours emerge). Perhaps this is anxiety? The lockdowns meant he developed anxiety and he had ELSA support at school in y2.

We’ve just spent the weekend with nephew(7) and he is everything DS is not - compliant, polite, good table manners, listens, doesn’t beg for sweets constantly, no tantrums. Of course, kids are usually different when they are staying with you but he is known to be these things at home anyway.

I just feel like an utterly shit parent. I was brought up with strict manners in all respects but I just can’t seem to instil these in DS.

On the plus side DS is well-behaved at school and at home (except for dinner), has lots of friends, does his homework with only occasional grumbling, bedtime is a dream, loves cuddles, always has very good school reports, I’m connecting a few dots and am concerned about dyspraxia and will be bringing this up with the school.

For everything else I’ve mentioned, is there something wrong with him, is he just lazy, is it our parenting, what?

Please be constructive, no need for nastiness.

Have a look at ADHD and ASD. Some of these issues sound familiar.

I don't think for a minute this is your intention but the first few paragraphs just read of parenting through shame and I'm not sure how productive the is going to be.
There seems to be a lot going on and although they are all physical manifestations I wonder if there is something psychologic going on in the background.
I have a mental health condition and retrospectively it started around 7 or 8 with some physical symptoms like refusing to ask to use to toilet in school. The my symptoms made me anxious and my anxiety had physical manifestations.
I would look into the dyspraxia. My bil has it and it has impacted his life much beyond the diagnostic criteria especially the time prior to the diagnosis where his needs were being met. It could be that the trying to adapt to a world that doesn't feel like him is causing anxiety and other symptoms

@MabelMaybe I have looked at typical symptoms for children/boys and I cannot see how any professional would diagnose those conditions in DS? Having 1-2 symptoms is not enough for a diagnosis because these crossover with other conditions, or can be a behavioural issue that can be rectified if handled differently.

@Superscientist it’s not my intention to come across as shaming my child. I am under a lot of stress at the moment with my DM having terminal cancer (DS does not know her at all) so I’m feeling frustrated and this has come across in my post I guess. I will be putting a list of pointers together about dyspraxia and contact the Senco.

I don't know. It's hard to tell really. Some kids are just rather slack and will wipe their noses on their sleeves and not wipe their bums properly (13 year old DD still isn't great at this!). As a PP said it does sound like you're trying to shame him.
As for wetting the bed, again you're trying to embarrass him re the residential and tell him off about it. It's not his fault! My DS was still wetting the bed at 8. I was always very laid back about it and didn't bother with medication, referrals, bed wetting alarms etc. My doctor told me it was extremely common and all related to this hormone that will kick in any time before puberty. She said that she personally wouldn't do anything about it until puberty. So I just stuck him in big nappies at night and got on with it. We really felt no need to make it in to a big issue or make him feel bad about it. Just before he turned 9, the bedwetting completely stopped as I knew it would.
The silliness at the dinner table and out in public - maybe attention seeking? Eight is still young and some kids are like this.
I'd try to not to get so stressed and make a big deal out of things.

He is only 8.

Some 8 year olds are compliant and some are not.

This one is not.

So you need to adapt your parenting so that you achieve your aims.

In terms of drinking more - model this yourself and do it with him. This technique is sometimes known as body doubling.

So at breakfast you have a big drink of milk or squash or whatever and so does he.
When he comes out of school you meet him with two cups of drink - you drink it in the way home and so does he.

I understand and if I thought you hadn't intended I wouldn't have said anything. my FiL has staged 4 cancer so I get it. I understand the frustration and my situation is very mild by comparison. My daughter has toddler diarrhoea and has really struggled with potty training from a poo perspective. It has been so utterly frustrating and it's only been our life for months not the situation you have been in. It must be so difficult juggling all the different care roles you are. That said I think there is better language available compared to using the risk of bullying to stop a behaviour to me sends the message that the action warrants bully. I really think this is the last thing you wanted from the statement but as a bullied child I found it difficult. These maybe far from the words actually used and my comments are not applicable to the actual conversations had.

Putting together a list for the senco about reasons you suspect dyspraxia. I would probably add the other stuff too as even if it's not relevant they might have suggestions that could help.

Yes I would look into referral. What that looks like, I don't know - GP? School psychologist/SENCo?

It sounds like you have tried parenting approaches and these have not been successful. It's not like you're just sitting back expecting him to magically develop these skills! There are concerns in a number of areas - you've mentioned more than one or two, as well as an overall sense that "something isn't right" - trust your instincts here, they are generally right.

I don't think you have to have a specific diagnosis in mind. Just these assorted issues that you've listed in your post.

Toilet issues (multiple including serious enough to have seen medical professionals)
Refusal to drink
Lack of social awareness
Hygeiene issues
Sensory aversion to poo
Other sensory issues
Emotional dysregulation and/or challenging behaviour (tantrums at 8)
Sensory issues around food
Query anxiety/stress
Query dyspraxia

That seems like more than 1-2 concerns to me!

I think the tantrums for getting things is probably your husband fault. You both need to be consistent. I'm supprised you got a referral over night time wetting as they won't until 8 here, as DD wasn't dry until 7. It isn't something they can control. Although encouraging drinking is a good idea as the last thing he needs is UTI's.

The not blowing nose totally normal at this age, DS is 13 and only really got it last year. Same with food kids are often fussy, DS took a long time to come around to trying new things and now the only time he will is if with others. Won't at home at all, yet my older DD will eat anything. Parented the same it's more of a personality thing.

Also the wipping, they just don't always get it till latter. Did he by any chance potty train late?

Quite a few things you have mentioned just seem like age related issues. Yes some children get things sooner, but others take longer.

Honestly, please speak to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician. There is definitely traits of ASD/ADHD. Even if there aren't enough symptoms to diagnose one of these, there are many other learning and developmental difficulties/sensory issues that it could be. A lot of these conditions have a huge overlap in symptoms. Collectively, what you've described suggests there is an issue. Whether it's something that can be diagnosed or not, he is clearly struggling with executive function. I say this on one hand as a psychotherapist who deals with this all the time and on the other hand, a parent of a child just like this. Despite my knowledge/experience I can find myself getting so frustrated at him and strict and inflexible and forgetting that he genuinely can't help it. It's hard as a parent! But understanding is everything. Have a look at issues with executive functioning. It makes it incredibly hard for them to follow very simple instructions they've been told 1000 times and spelt out. Also they don't always connect with things that are in their own best interests. It makes it very frustrating for us parents but they can't help it!

@MigGirl the NHS guidance for bed wetting is now age 6+ which is when he first got referred. I guess overall is that some children are compliant and achieve or at least try to do certain things when they should, and others are more difficult to do so but it doesn’t necessarily mean there is anything wrong with them. It’s finding out the difference between the two possibilities I guess.

@SallyWD yes, as I’ve just replied to the poster above some children do things later than others for no particular reason, while others may have a medical/behavioural reason for it. I’m hoping he’s just a bit slow to the party but I will try and make a GP appointment without him to discuss.

@scoobysnaxx i will try and get a GP appointment and I’ve had a quick look at executive function but so far I can’t see anything I recognise in DS from the definitions and examples I’ve found so far. I’ll have another look.

I do think sometimes that his comprehension isn’t quite where it should be - this is what is holding his reading back at school the teacher said last month (it’s not a major issue). When I’ve tried to have a chat with him about toileting, drinking more, how he can’t have a toy every time he goes in a shop/supermarket, behaviour around food etc it seems to go in one ear and out the other - but is this typical child selective hearing or a sign of something else?

To be honest I always worried DS might have issues. Due to food aversion, I mean he went to breakfast club one morning and threw up because someone sat next to him with strong smelling food.

He also was still tantruming at a much later age then DD as well and other things like blowing his nose, cleaning himself. Not following instructions (he's actually just very stubern) he potty trained really late to, at 4 1/2years. But like you he didn't tick all the right boxes for anything.

You really can't count the bed wetting as it's not developmental at all, it's normally a physical issue if it doesn't right itself.

Apparent from still being a really fussy eater he's absolutely fine now.

See the GP if it will put your mind at ease, bit he's most likely fine.

Definitely sounds like some sensory issues. Stuff to do with toileting and wetting could be to do with poor body awareness, which my dd who has asd suffers from. The being overloaded at meal times also rings a bell. Sometimes she just needs to eat alone and we go with this. He may also be overloaded when you are out and about with all the people, shops and possible options. I think you need to stop looking at this as if he is being naughty and start looking at what might be triggering him. With the drinking - we had similar and worked with school to set her drinking challenge - no way would she have just had a cm of water. You need to parent the child you have, so it really makes no odds what 7 yo nephew is doing.