Really struggling

[Cheesytoaster]

I am extremely exhausted and run down. My LO (who is 14 months) has been waking up frequently about 3/5 times at night for the past 10 weeks. Ever since he started nursery at the end of Aug, his bedtime has been horrendous. I’m at a complete loss on what to do, every night my anxiety is rocket high and I can’t relax because I often wait until he wakes up crying and screaming.
My husband has been seeing to him more when he wakes up due to me being so run down and unwell.

We rock him to sleep because every time we tried to ‘sleep train’ using the Ferber method, he would be hysterical and end up being sick from crying and coughing so much.

He used to be a good sleeper and I just don’t know what has happened. We haven’t changed our routine - we had a routine since he was 6 weeks old.

I really don’t know what to do and don’t know why this has been ongoing for so long…

I’m really, really struggling.

You don't need to see a dietician to start but your HV can refer to a dietician.
Oat milk is the next best after soya milk. Oatly barista or alpro growing up soya. We get our oatly on subscribe and save through Amazon. Petit filous do an almond yoghurt and check the ingredients of everything. Cmpa Facebook groups are very helpful.
Start the day after you do a food shop!

Sometimes you’re not doing anything wrong, at all, the reason I sleep trained my DD at 11m is exactly what you’re describing, frequent wake ups, only wanting me, not going back to sleep unless cuddled, and then not staying asleep.. rinse repeat at least 3 times a night. I was the walking dead, very much where you are now, I just cried constantly from exhaustion. And the anxiety of not being able to go to sleep when you had the chance because you were just waiting for the cry.. it’s like mental torture 😞 It’s like they get to a certain point and all they want is you.

Once he learns to fall asleep independently it won’t be so bad, but the problem with sleep training to get to the point is you have to make sure all their needs are met, and they’re not actively in pain/ill etc, as you can never be sure if they’re crying just for you or they’re crying when they need something.

I KNEW with mine she was just crying for me, because she learned if she cried I came, and no one else would do, so the sleep training was easy, it was all over within a week and the best thing we did, but it’s not for everyone, I do occasionally have nerves of steel and it paid off massively, we did CIO but other gentler methods would probably be better for a baby who cries till they’re sick.

fingers crossed the bottle helps later x

@Superscientist so would I just cut o it all dairy and offer alternative or soya milk? I drink oat milk but would rather my LO have the best after cows milk to get all the nutrients he needs. How long do I do this for? If I don't see a difference, so I just go back to cows milk?
Did this improve your LO's sleep? How did this affect their sleep? My LO waking up frequently throughout the night could be caused by this? How? Discomfort? Or the throwing up part? Sorry for the questions, my brain is so muffled and blurred atm that thinking alone is hard work.

Rule out pain, teething, hunger etc first.

Then I'd suggest sleep training again but try doing it differently. For example we kind of combined Ferber with pick up put down- so we'd follow the Ferber time intervals but go in and pick up and rock her until she was almost asleep, then repeat. No one recommended this but we just went by our instincts.

Are you both working full time? Could you arrange it so that you alternate nights, eg one night your husband deals with all wakeups and you get a full night's sleep with earplugs, then switch the next night? At least that way you can each get a few solid nights sleep each?

For the first couple of weeks don't use soya dairy replacements as there is commonality in the proteins so you can be allergic to both. After probably week 3 you could introduce them. 3-6 weeks should be enough and if there is zero improvement at 4 weeks you could stop then.

For oat milk it needs to be the equivalent of whole milk so 3g of fat per 100g and 60 cal. You need 120mg calcium per 100ml and some iodine. The last time I did a comparison alpro growing up milk and oatly barista were the best. We use oatly due to other allergies and our dietitian is happy with this.

Out and out the worst two things for my daughters sleep are reflux and allergies and allergies often makes the reflux worse. Teething makes her reflux worse too. Diet has had such an improvement on my daughters sleep we didn't get her allergies sorted until 15 months and reflux 18 months. She was awake 5+ times a night and only slept whilst held or sleeping on my face. We had a period of about 4 months when her reflux and allergies were in a good place and she slept through the night 4 or 5 times a week waking once of the other nights. Reflux returning and we started the milk ladder she was able to 3-5+ wake ups a night only sleeping whilst held. She had silent reflux but we can hear her if we listen closely. She also has damage to her teeth from the reflux. Needing to be touched and be more upright are indicative or reflux.

You have my sympathy. We had the same thing when he started nursery and it went on at least a couple of months. It go to the point where we'd take turns sleeping in the nursery because then one of us got decent sleep and the other got better sleep than if they were traipsing to and fro.

Eventually we gave up trying to get him back in his cot (he would not let us put him back down) and we put a single mattress on the floor as his bed, and it also meant we could lie down and cuddle him to sleep more easily. It made a really big difference.

We'd never sleep trained as he'd always been a good sleeper. He still needs cuddling to sleep now (20 months) and we occasionally have bad patches when he's teething/sick but its a lot better and he will often sleep through.

Hang in there.

We tried the Ferber method but the problem is, is that if we leave it for too long or if we don't get to him on time, he will get so wound up that he will be sick. As a result, I worry so much about sleep training and don't even know how or where to begin.

Yea, we both work full time. Do take it in turns to see to him and although the structure you mentioned sounds good, I often find myself struggling to sleep when my husband takes over because I worry about everything. My anxiety has gotten so much worse since having a baby.

I'm so glad to hear that your daughter's sleep has improved through her diet. Bless her.
So would I start on soya first and if no improvement y week 4 then stop and switch to oat milk?
MyLO loves cheese so will have to find a diary free one for him.

Is this a temporary diet? Would they grow out of it as they get older?

Thank you so much. We are in week 12 (approx 3 months in) and can't see any signs of improvement. He has already woken up once tonight. It's definitely it hunger as he had a finished his entire dinner (chilli con carne and fruit loaf for pudding) along with his bedtime milk.
I'm not sure if putting a mattress in his room would make a difference as he will sit up and cry until we pick him up. Sometimes we bring him into our room and co-sleep so we would at least get a few more hours in but unfortunately our LO has other ideas. On a good day he would sleep with us, on a bad day (which is majority of the time), he will wriggle, whinge, thrash until it's time to get up. I'm so confused and lost on what to do. I might get a sleep consultant in to help but m'dear that won't even work and I would waste my money on information that I probably know or have already tried.

Sounds like you ruled out hunger. That's progress! Everything you rule out is progress even if it doesn't feel like it.

I'm just waiting for him to wake up around the 3am mark. There seems to be a pattern - 9ish and 3ish are the main ones. This is really, really hard.

No the other way around. Don't use soya for the first few weeks. Once things improve you can try soya products.
Yes it's temporary and most children outgrow it between 2 and 3. If they have cmpa once they have been dairy free for 6 months you try the milk ladder which is introducing small amounts of very processed foods like a biscuit then cake and see where their tolerance for dairy.

First you just do a short trial of no dairy to see if it makes a difference. Cathedral city apparently have the best vegan cheese. My daughter can't have any of the cheeses due to other allergies though so this what I have heard from others rather than persons recommendation

@Superscientist I'm a bit confused. He doesn't have soya products so why would I need to wait a few weeks and not just start now? He currently has cows milk and normal dairy products.
Sorry again, very new to this and don't want to get it wrong.

Sorry for confusing you
You taking out dairy now or when ever you want to start.
When you are looking at dairy alternatives in the supermarket start with oat or coconut version. Hold off using soya products until you see a benefit from stopping dairy.

About half of children will be allergic to both. If you switch dairy for soya and they are allergic to both it would look like there is no improvement and it's due to adding a new allergen at the same time as removing an different.

So say you decide to stop dairy tomorrow you could go to the shop and get some oat milk and the petite filous almond yoghurts or the coconut collaborations. Things go well and you see and improve over the next few weeks. You go shopping again and now you could try to soya dairy alternatives products as well as the ones you have settled on previously

Thank you everyone for your continued support, tips and advice. We have paid for a highly qualified sleep consultant to work with us on my LO's sleep. Last night was horrendous!

@Superscientist we are also going to try your recommendation as well and see if this will improve anything. Thanks again for the detailed information

Fingers crossed the sleep consultant will be able to help us through this journey.

Good luck OP. Let us know how you get on!

I know the gp said no medication needed for reflux but the arching back sounds very familiar...my son had to be on omeprazole for good few years due to reflux before i weaned him off. He still can only handle small amounts of dairy as it makes him sick in his mouth (sorry, TMI).
Have you explored a dairy allergy? Sure the doctors have but thought worth asking!
It is horrendous but it WILL get better and end (even if you're currently on the edge of delerium from tiredness...)

Hi @Cheesytoaster

I know this is old but I came across your post as I’m feeling the exact same was as you - broken, from exhaustion. My once 12h sleeper is now waking 2-4 times a night since starting nursery and I feel I’ve tried everything. Did the sleep consultant help? Are you able to share your experience since? Thank you