Finding life really difficult with 4 year old and 9 month old!

[L0ts]

I just want to start off by saying I love my children to pieces but man, I am burnt out every single day.

My partner works mon-fri so during the week every thing is all on me. My mom lives 5 hours away so I can’t ever just call on her for help and everybody else I know works too so can’t come and give me a breather either.

4 year old is at nursery 9-12 so that’s great but 9 month old will only ever contact nap and I’m finding it more and more difficult as the days go by. I’m not willing to sleep train or do any sort of cry it out so please don’t suggest it. He’s at that age atm where he wants to move but he cannot figure it out so he’s refusing naps until he’s exhausted and he’s sleeping absolutely horrendously.

Because he contact naps I find it hard to be around for the 4 year old and leave him with his tv on, some biscuits and a drink and we’ve got cameras set up downstairs too so I’m never not watching him, but I still feel awful for it, in fact I often feel like the biggest piece of 💩 in the world if truth be told.

I am finding everything so difficult atm I really am, especially on top of house work, cooking, trying to wean 9 month old, nursery drop off and pick up, a dog to look after, 2 rabbits..

9 month old cosleeps (I mean, of course he does) and still wakes on average 8-10 times in a 12-13 hour period. My partner does what he can but of course we all know how these breastfed babies are when dad tries to help at night. The evenings are worse as we are up and down the stairs like yo-yos having to constantly resettle him. He does luckily take a bottle of 3-4oz expressed milk from dad in the mornings and it does give me 2-3 hours to catch up on sleep but it’s never enough.

I don’t want this though, I don’t want this permanent level of exhaustion. I don’t want to always have to have a lie in because if I don’t I feel like I might die.

I guess what I’m asking is for positive stories of similar experiences and when did it ever get better? I thought a newborn with a 3 year old was hard but this is just next level.

Ah it’s so hard, I’m also finding things hard with my just turned one year old and just turned 3 year old. Also no family around plus DH out of the house a lot.

I feel guilty about having the TV on too much but don’t know what the answer is. I think life is just hard with two small children especially if they don’t sleep independently. My two still co-sleep at night but thankfully can nap alone after I initially lie with them till they fall asleep.

Don’t have any real advice but just wanted to let you know you’re not alone!

Can you put your 4yo in childcare longer? Or different paid childcare?

You've said you aren't willing to consider sleep training - so unless you think your 9 month old is magically going to switch from only contact naps to sleeping by themselves, you're committed to contact napping for the foreseeable. And you can't realistically manage a 4yo at home while you're contact napping with an unsettled 9 month old. So try to get the 4yo elsewhere, and outsource what you can in terms of housekeeping chores.

Can you put the baby in a sling to nap and carry on doing stuff around the house and with your older child?

Wow how are you still functioning? It sounds so difficult for you OP. Are you prepared to wait until you literally lose the plot (if you haven’t already!) before you do something like sleep training? You say it like it’s a massive negative but it really isn’t. There’s so much help out there to support with sleep and naps.
It will get better and easier eventually of course, but it’ll be much easier, much quicker if you actively try to sort out the sleep. It doesn’t mean you don’t love your baby if you don’t do contact naps. Good luck 🤞

You need to get your 9 month old to nap in other ways. You don’t have to leave him screaming alone for hours on end but it really doesn’t seem fair on the 4 year old. You could try working on the “feed and roll” technique - so feed to sleep while you’re both lying down and then roll away and have cameras on the bedroom so you can watch him while you play with the 4yo. i think the best option is to work on him getting to sleep more independently and with less support from you.

I’ve had two kids who both were contact nappers and who fed to sleep and coslept and breastfed throughout the night and while I can see the appeal of doing that, you need to accept that if you’re going to go down that route then they probably won’t sleep independently for a LONG time. Neither of mine did until I weaned just before 2. They don’t know how to sleep alone or link their sleep cycles so they are very dependent on you and it’s exhausting. But if you’re going to go down that route then I agree it would be better for the 4yo to go to nursery for longer hours.

I should also add that there’s no evidence that contact napping and cosleeping and feeding through the night etc is in any way linked to attachment quality or any social or emotional or academic outcomes whatsoever. I say that as someone who has done all those things - I did them because I was lazy and couldn’t be bothered to try to “fix” their sleep. But there’s so many Instagram accounts etc dedicated to telling you that all of these specific parenting techniques are essential for “attachment security” etc and there is genuinely no evidence for that. There is evidence that leaving a baby to scream alone for long periods may be harmful, so I understand why you don’t want to do that. But honestly if I could turn the clock back I would work on breaking the link between feeding and sleeping and by making them less reliant on me for sleep because it actually nearly broke me. Nearly lost the plot.

(And I would have been a better mum to my older DC if I wasn’t so exhausted from the younger one, sorry to say)

Oh gosh please don’t think I’m literally abandoning my 4 year old all day. We go to the park, soft plays, garden centre to very recently see the Christmas displays, visit my elderly grandparents who they love etc after my little ones nap. The baby also goes to bed at 6pm so 4 year old has alllllllll of our attention completely between then and 8:30 when he goes to bed. It’s just for that one hour nap he has to entertain himself. He isn’t here for babies first nap as he’s at nursery.

I’m honestly fully aware it won’t fix itself and if it does get better it’s going to take time, my first didn’t nap solo until he was 2 and didn’t sleep in his own bed and bedroom until he was 3 so I totally know the baby will get there eventually 😩 In hindsight now I know it’s very short lived.

I might have to look in to some very gentle sleep training approaches though as I’m sure there are some out there that aren’t as brutal as my mind is imagining. For some reason I didn’t think about the feeding and then rolling away, might give this a go tomorrow and see how we get on!

Thank you for your replies, I appreciate them!

Feeding to sleep and then rolling away is definitely worth a try – it was the start of a very gentle transition to more independent sleep for both of mine. It may also (eventually) help with the constant up and down in the evening. I will admit that after a couple of trips up the stairs to resettle baby, I usually just joined baby in bed – it's not as though DH and I were getting any quality time downstairs together anyway, so at least that way we could relax separately!

How well does baby sleep through 4 year old noise? Can he contact nap in a sling or carrier whilst you do stories/puzzles/colouring/lego with the big one?I'm assuming he doesn't nap in the buggy?

Try feeding and rolling away - I could do thar with my first from around 8 months. If that doesn't work, wear in a carrier so you can quietly play with older child.

My baby is only just 6 months (tomorrow) and unfortunately she's never fed to sleep! And will currently only nap in the carrier, not even just on me!! Bit I'm only with 22month and baby alone 2 days a week. And baby will sleep wherever, as long as she's in the carrier.

My now 22 month woke 7-10 times a night until just after her first birthday. Always co sleeping. Then suddenly learned to sleep and was instantly down to 1 wake up. And not long after, was sleeping through 99% and still is. No sleep training.

I understand how tough it is for you. Its tough for me. I'd see about upping your child's nursery to 2 full days. Honestly, I love my 2 days of just me and baby. Get to do some baby focused groups and just chill a bit!!

I have the same age gap and I feel for you! My older DC1 was summer born so luckily went off to school when DC2 was 4 months - I struggle during the holidays with them both. I would definitely recommend getting some longer nursery hours if you can, or some other supervised activity in the afternoons. DC1 was doing some drop-off activities at age 4 - music class, swimming and football lessons. A Yoto player is great for when they're at home, if you don't want so much screen time. It plays audio books and has a radio program.

It does get easier. Mine are 5 and 18m now. They can play a bit more independently and I can leave them to get on with things in the playroom, at least to get a few short tasks done. DC2 is still cosleeping and breastfeeding but DH can usually settle her, so I get a bit of time to myself in the evenings.

My first is 4.5 and second is now 13 months and I’ve done things similarly to you, OP - not because I think there’s any advantage in contact naps and extended breastfeeding and cosleeping but because my DD2 seems to need that type of support while DD1 was happy alone in her cot from a young age. Feeding to sleep and rolling away has worked for me, although the naps aren’t long - they are gradually improving. If you could try some longer hours at daycare for your first while you get that moving. And I don’t think it’s true that their overnight sleep only improves if you wean and/or sleep train because this one’s nights have steadily become more solid, with setbacks along the way during teething etc.
It’s been a longer road than I thought, but after 13 months, DD1 is starting to get me back in her life. On weekends my partner and I try to plan one outing where he takes the smaller and I take the bigger. And the 4yo often comes and snuggles into the bed on my other side at night. It’s really hard but the cracks of light will appear and they will widen.