At what age does pooing in pants become a "problem" and not something they will eventually get?

[BernieBear]

Ds is nearly 4, still poos his pants, have seen HV and done all the usual tricks, but over a year later he is still doing it. Am thinking of going to the doctor. So at what age is this thought of as a "problem" or is it just something that will eventually come (probably around puberty!)

I don't know. My 9 yr old was still doing it regularly despite trying everything. He stopped suddenly and we've had no problems since.

Oh dear BernieBear. I don't have any direct experience of it but DH's nephew did it for over a year and still wasn't 100% reliable by the time he started school although he was almost there.

DH's nephew did it every day and in the end his grandmother was with him one day and actually got quite exasperated with him and told him it wasn't good enough and he had to stop doing it because it wasn't very nice, it wasn't what big boys do and his poor mother had to clear it up. He was actually quite surprised by this that it should be a problem and just said Mummy doesn't mind.
His poor mother had been so reasonable and had actually not made a fuss or shouted at him or anything, just like the books said and he didn't realise it was wrong.

After that he made a lot more effort to do it in the toilet and he improved a lot.

Does your DS understand that it is not the right thing to do? Has he ever managed it in the toilet or is he frightened of something?

He will probably just grow out of it but it isn't nice for you in the meantime is it?

Thanks for the replies. He knows it's wrong, I have occasionally got angry, but on the whole try to remain calm. Recently I have been doing the "no speaking, no eye contact" whilst changing/cleaning him which does seem to have some effect. He also says sorry everytime he does it. He will poo on the toilet when put there/bribed to get on and once, ONCE has taken himself off to the toilet and done it himself! If he is not wearing pants (i.e. playing games but not wearing anything from the waist down) he will go then but obviously this is not the ideal.

I hate to say it, but I think he is lazy . My mum thinks it is behavioural and his other nana and Grandad lecture him. I am just so lost with it all now.

9 YEARS OLD??????? You poor poor woman Orm and scared.......

I'm not suggesting it will go on that long bernie. And he wasn't exactly pooing in them - more like heavy skid marks. I thought we should go to the GP, DH thought he was just lazy. But his cousin was similar - they took him to the GP and it did no good. I both cases, it stopped of it's own accord evetually.

Have you bought any children's books on toilet training? Ds really responded to
this one

although it is American (I have to change "diaper" to "nappy" when I read it to ds)

I read it to him whenever he is on the potty and he suddenly seemed to understand that he needed to use the potty to do a poo (after weeks if not months of trying to explain it to him myself)

Okay, will try a book, he did have one at the beginning but maybe a new one would be better. My feeling is also that a visit to the GP maybe a waste of time, but have really had enough now. I was hoping I would be worrying about getting him dry at night by now, but that just seems like a distant dream!

I don't know, this may sound a bit mean but if you think it is laziness then maybe something that will work is to make it more difficult for him. Make him help with the cleaning up, or do something that makes it a hassle for him. Maybe when he does a poo in the wrong place take something away from him - a favourite toy, food, outing, tv programme, whatever makes him think.

Do you still keep asking him if he needs to go? Is he fairly regular or can it be any time of the day which would make asking him difficult - you would have to be on his back all day?

Have you tried the ever faithful star chart recently? My DS2 was a bit late to get round to potty training - very stubborn and didn't want to know. For a long time he wasn't interested in star charts either but he eventually, when old enough, realised that they might be worth having after all and that was when he decided to use the toilet.

This organisation is quite helpful www.eric.org.uk/. My dd did this for a while but had stopped when she went to school (4 1/2). With her though, it was related to constipation. I don't think it's that unusual at your ds's age tbh.

There was someone I know whose son refused to give up nappies. He was due to start school in a few weeks, which he was really keen about, so she pretended to call the school while he was listening and said "ds won't be able to start school after all, he's still wearing nappies". This worked straight away! Maybe it is a carrot and stick approach!!

Thanks Niecie, yes I have tried, and still do, get him to help clear it up, take toys away, food etc. Have done charts, cars in a jar, money, reading on loo, blowing bubbles on loo, getting angry/ignoring/bored etc. New pants, boxers shorts....god I could go on but it's been about 15 months now.

Thanks for the advice though, sometimes it is just nice to unload a bit!

I think that, like food, it is the only thing he can control in life thus like with a lot of things I said I wouldn't allow before I had him, food and poo are fast becoming battle grounds.

I even had Asda Delivery man in on the act presenting him with a toy every week (which I had ordered!) if he had done 3 poos on the toilet that week. That poor poor man

Oh sorry Bernie, you really have tried everything, haven't you.

I like the idea of the Asda delivery man though, that was a corker. Shame it didnt work, it deserved to.

I was saying to somebody yesterday that of all the parenting issues I have encountered so far ( and mine are 4.6 and 7.8) potty training is the worst and relatively speaking I had it quite easy.

I bet it would sort itself out when he started school but that is a long wait for you both.

Oh Thanks Wombat, will take a look at that. It looks promising.

Yes "Asda Man" is a legend in this house - he even has his own song that we sing (me and ds, not Asda Man)

I'm hoping it will sort itself by school - he starts part time in September, then to full time in January.

Thanks for the ideas Niecie, much appreciated.......off to make my asda order now......minus a toy, it is being replaced by a bottle of wine

I think that money helped with my DS in the end. He was getting pocket money and in the end I told him that I refused to wash any more pooey pants so they would end up in the bin and he would have to pay for any new ones. I don't know how much difference that made but it stopped around then. But I guess that's not going to work with a child of your son's age.

BB, sounds like you have done EVERYTHING and the staying calm thing is great, that's what I have real trouble with. We're 18 months into pooing pants nearly every day (we had a 3 months break into nappies as I couldn't cope anymore). My dad, who's a pediatrician, said not to take him for a pediatric referral until he was over 4 as it's making too big a deal of it. But he's 4.3 now and starting school in Sept and I am expecting another baby in october (the poo started when I was pg with ds2) so I'm asking for a referral. Do you think in any way it could be medical, he can't control them coming out because ds1 certainly can't on occasion and this is the issue. If they hold it in for a long time, then they lose sensation in their bowels, very common with boys this age. Any of this relate to your ds?

DS1 still did this regularly until he was part way through reception (5 1/2yrs old) it just suddenly stopped!

I am finally winning the poo battle with my DD after months of poos in pants. I had a chat with a teacher at DD's school and came up with a plan. Obviously your situation may be different to ours and so it may not work for you, but it really did work almost instantaneously for us. OK, this was the plan.

1. Absolutely no reminders about going to the loo. None, none, none. Very hard to do for me.
2. Casually drop into conversation every so often "Babies do poos in their nappies, but Mummy and Daddy do poos in the loo, and so do big girls like you. All your friends at nursery do poos in the loo" .

This resulted in the first poo in the loo for 3 or 4 months. I almost fell over backwards.

3. When there were accidents, then I waited for my DD to tell me. Sometimes I had to wait for up to 30 mins. The time got shorter and shorter.

4. After she had told me, I would say "Oh well just let me know when you want to get cleaned up" and then I walked away. This was to get around the marvellous game of running away from mummy. Sometimes I would have to wait for half an hour or so. I would occasionally remind her that if she wanted to get changed she should let me know.

5. When she said she wanted to get changed, I encouraged her to take off her trousers and pants by herself, as much as possible. I handed her some wipes and then let her clean herself up as much as possible. While she was doing this I turned away to clean up her pants, or would leave the room and just let her get on with it. When she was clean I would give her new clothes and tell her to put them on. I would not praise her for cleaning or getting dressed but I also wasn't nasty at all. It was all very matter of fact. Throughout I would aim for a zen like calm!

It was only through using this approach that I realised how much negative attention I had been giving DD for soiling. I had thought that I was being calm but actually I was so wound up by it all that my crossness came out through odd comments, gritted teeth and general tenseness.

In the first week we had almost complete success rate. Unfortuantely it all got messed up because we went away for a week and I think I started to fall back in my old ways. I have resumed "the programme" again in the last week and once again have had huge success. It's not solved completely yet, but things have improved massively and I really believe that in another week or so everything should be fine.

Incidentally, I think if your child is constipated then a different approach may be called for.

Have been reading this with great interest - as my dd is 4 next month and still regularly wets and poos her pants. She is quite capable of doing both on the toilet, and does when she seems to feel like it. I too have tried everything. A month ago I'd got very wound up and cross again and it as back to not letting her have treats her sister was getting if she'd weed/pood too many times. Still didn't work. So then retried the whole ignoring, staying calm, not batting an eyelid thing. The trouble is she won't tell me, so I end up with wee smeared all over the sofa etc, and the other day poo all down the starirs where she had bumped down them on her pooey bum !

SO now back to good old chart, which hasn't been tried in about a year. Its been a week and i have to say, not working that well.

I think I have to somehow switch off from it, completely blank out what she's doing and in time it will hopefully stop. People keep suggesting its an attention thing, as she is middle child, but I feel I give her loads, I adore her, I really do ! Just don't understand why she does it.

Anyway, as you can see no help from me, just thought I;d share my despair !

The teacher I spoke to suggested that if my DD really didn't say anything to me, then I should wander past and make some comment like "Oh, it smells a bit funny in here. I wonder what that could be." and then wait to see if she took the bait. Maybe worth a try? She also said that as the poo dries off it becomes more uncomfortable for them.

You have my deepest sympathy though. Pooey stairs sounds pretty grim.

Thanks. The other issue is she has bad eczema so all this pooing and weeing really aggravates it. Very hard to ignore. Its another reason why I really don't get why she does it. Why make herself more itchy ?
I would love to know more about psychology I really would ! Maybe she is trying to hang onto being a baby somehow ?? I can;t blame her baby brother too much though, as she was terrible at it way before he showed up. o well, hopefully in a years time it will all be distant memory ! Agree with the poster who said potty training was worst thing about parenting !!

Sorry, just checked this thread. I am overwhelmed by all the replies, and to know I am not alone does make it easier to cope with.

Accessorize oh I feel your pain. I do think he knows as when he is playing with nothing on he will suddenly realise he needs to go, and run to the toilet HOWEVER when in pants....well you know the rest. I too have had the pooey stairs! Although I do also wonder about him hanging on and then not being able to control it. Good luck with the referral, stay in touch and let me know how you go?

Neolara - thank you for all that - I will now adopt your approach. Half of it I have been doing i.e. making him get himself dressed, putting dirty clothes in laundry basket; but I like the whole approach of letting them tell you when they have done, and then making the choice to want to be changed. Zen like calm

Chankins - poor you - my ds also had/has eczema due to allergies and I have often wondered if there is a connection. DS also gets sore etc and I seriously don't understand why why why he does it.

Anyway, thanks again all....and good luck comrades

Just wanted to add - Ds1 finally stopped pooing in his pants when i happened to mention that swimming nappies did not fit him any more so I couldn't take him swimming until he did all his poo in the toilet for a week

I know this thread is probably ended now but I just wanted to let you know that have been following Neolara's advise and have had no accidents since Saturday!

Many many thanks for your advise and help all of you. I have probably jinxed it now, but so far this week my boy has taken himself off to the toilet 5 times!

This is one happy mummy signing off xxxx

Hurray! So pleased for you!

We're also have success this end too. It's such a relief. No more pooey pant!

Neolara, I think your approach sounds inspired and makes complete sense - wish I had managed it with dd1 (although I tried not to, I probably was also tense/cross). Glad it has worked so well!

Hello again - well thanks again, one small accident in nighttime nappy after my last post but still very good. On the back of this success ds announced at "past bedtime" last night that he was now not wearing nappies to bed!!!!!!! Que look of horror from me! However I went with it and he did actually get up during the night to go for a wee but then had an accident early morning. However I must say a huge thank you again Neolara, the change in this house is incredible and I never imagined a day when he would be doing it all himself AND want to go dry at night. Incredible.

Congrats on your success too