Managing toddler and newborn as the preferred parent

[JumalanTerve]

Hi Mumsnet, long post coming!

I'm having a bit of a hard time as our family goes from three to four, and I wondered if anyone else has been in the same position.

We have a 3.5 yo and a one month old. Since he turned 1, the eldest has had a strong preference for me. This preference has waxed and waned but it's always been there, to the extent DW often cannot put him to bed or give him baths as he will demand I do it.

This was difficult but manageable with one, but with a new baby in the mix it's becoming very tough indeed. We saw this coming and got all the books about new siblings, showed our eldest as much attention as we could, involve him with caring for the new baby, and so on, but since the baby arrived, caring for both of them is not really possible for me. Ds1 gets upset if he sees me holding the baby, and has started waking up multiple times at night and not going back to sleep once he realised I am in our room with the baby. (luckily he is absolutely wonderful with the baby, it's me he is annoyed with!)

DW has had various complications from the C-section which makes it difficult for her to even shift position in the bed when feeding, so I am needed at night to manage the feeding and the settling, but this isn't really feasible once DS1 wakes up and realises what I'm up to, so he demands I come down and sleep with him. I pretty much have to be in two places at once…

Has anyone else been in this situation? Any advice? I know 3yo is so young for a major life chance like this so I don't expect to somehow 'fix' this any time soon, but it's rapidly becoming unmanageable for us.

Thanks in advance

Just be grateful your DW isn't the preferred parent and can get a chance to deal with the new baby and recover from her operation? Not entirely sure what the problem is to be honest.

Thanks for your answer. The main problem is that at night I need to be in two places at once - helping with the baby and settling ds1, which usually happen at the same time. I also don't want DS1 to feel upset when he sees me with the baby and to help him deal with this as best I can

Welcome to the world of 2 kids. That's your lot now, I don't think there is an answer. My 2 both want me, will have a tantrum about sitting next to me at the table, and will walk past my husband asleep to wake me up every single night. Maybe someone less sleep deprived can come along and offer you some more helpful advice.

Are you the dad or mum @JumalanTerve ?

If you are dad, perhaps do as much for toddler as you can so mum can care for the newborn and her birth recovery. Divide and conquer with two little kids!

If you are mum in a same sex relationship and you have just given birth plus the toddler prefers you... well that's a tough one but as PP said it's pretty standard.

We tried to make my husband seem a lot more appealing so that our toddler would go to him, eg offer to play footie in the garden or intro a new toy and play it together, something that a baby couldn't use. Also hubby and toddler worked together to make me slices of toast etc on the weekends.

I'm not sure the problem here is parent preference, but your older child being unsettled.

I have an 8 week old baby and a 2.5 year old. The toddler is at nursery in the week but around that time and at the weekends DH pretty much does everything for him at the moment because I am exclusively breastfeeding and required most of the time for the newborn. We try to all go out together if it's the park etc and I will spend time with DS whilst newborn naps in carrier or buggy. Ditto round the house - we swap and I play with DS if DH is able to have the baby for a bit. DH is doing all bedtimes.

Separately, 2 year old DS has been unsettled since the baby was born. Lots of tantrums, waking up in the night after sleeping through for the last 6 months or so. Deliberately ignoring us and sometimes hurting us (not the baby) in ways he would not have done previously. So there's been that to manage. If your DS is waking up at night you will need to sort him out and your partner will need to deal with the baby - basically trying to swap these tasks I would say is a bit pointless at this stage. Your DW needs to be able to spend a time with the toddler reading, cuddling etc and hopefully over time the parental preference will reset a bit.

Get the baby napping on you in a sling during the day to help with both.

Why do you have to be so rude?

The problem is clearly outlined in the OP. The poster is needed in the night to support the mum post C-section, but the toddler is unhappy with this and getting up in the night to get attention from the OP.

There, sadly, isn’t some magic solution to this.
Hopefully it will be fairly short term as your wife recovers better and is able to manage the newborn unaided.
The other option would be some sleep training for the toddler. It’s not always a popular solution on here but it’s what I would be doing. Sleep is the one thing I can’t manage to do without. At 3.5 he really will be staring to learn what consequences his behaviours have. He is not doing it ‘on purpose’ exactly but he will be learning that if he does xyz then Daddy will come running and he got what he was after.

Thank you @Sandpitnotmoshpit and @TheOpen . Divide and conquer was the plan pre birth, but post section complications mean I have to do a lot more with the baby that we would have liked - winding, being on hand at night to lift the baby and move him around, etc. Seeing me do this is what's upsetting DS1, but do you think it's just inevitable and that he will just have to get used to a new sibling in the family?

Edit - yes, I am the dad

This is what I will try I think. I don't like sleep training either (especially as ds1 is on a different floor to us due to the layout of the house) but I think I'm going to have to do it, otherwise we are all awake and DW finds it too hard on her own

Just let DS1 join you for settling the baby, and once the baby is settled put DS1 back to bed. Many many parents have to juggle a toddler and newborn at once. You will find your way.

it's just inevitable and that he will just have to get used to a new sibling in the family?

yes he will. Just include him so you are with both at the same time.
I don’t think “sleep training” is the answer as he isn’t having sleep problems, he is more afraid he is being replaced and so it will reassure him that you can be with both him and baby at once so they aren’t in competition.

Definitely don't sleep train a 3.5 year old who has a new sibling. I would just let them come in your room, sleep in with you when they wake? Nightlight and some books near the bed? You sleep in their room with them for a bit and then just leave to resettle the baby?

Re-reading I realized that the main issue is actually that your wife needs physical help because she is recovering from a difficult birth so divide and conquer is not possible. Has she had help with feeding in positions which are good post c-section? Is she struggling to hold the baby upright to wind? Is she breast or bottle feeding? Do you have any local support from family? Do you have enough money for a night nanny who could do the things you are doing for her at night (I realize they for 99% of people the answer would be no)

Just let the toddler help you help Mum and baby. During the day give the boy a nappy to hold etc.
Could you, at night time, be more quiet and keep things dark when attending to the baby?

Is there another reason why the older child wakes?
Do they need a thicker night nappy? Do they have worms? An ear ache? Is the floor extra creeky or the room too hot or too cold? There could be a simple solution to waking at night that you are missing..

I personally can’t think of anything worse than having a rambunctious 3.5 year old join me in the middle of the night whilst I’m trying to feed and settle a newborn baby after a c-section and a difficult recovery but you must do what suits your family best.
Sleep training worked extremely well for our family. Kids are now 13 and 10 with no obvious long term damage!

I've tried that but he wants to play while the baby is settled, wants to engage with me and the baby (edit - basically as @Smartiepants79 describes), so it doesn't really work! To answer your other questions, we don't have massive family support although they visit a lot, she is breastfeeding and has had help with post section feeding (the postnatal support around us is very good), and we definitely can't afford a night nanny 😂thanks UK maternity legislation for new hires. And you're right, the main problem is I'm needed for both - if birth recovery had been OK I probably wouldn't be making this thread

Thanks, that's a good point. I don't think there's a reason he wakes, although he's always been a poor sleeper. He's been out of nappies at night for a year, his room's a steady 19-22 degrees, and he's not complained of any pain anywhere

I think really the issue is the toddler being unsettled by the baby's arrival. In honesty the partner being the preferred parent here is the best scenario. Because I am mum and preferred parent, and I physically can't feed my baby and calm a tantrum at the same time while recovering from birth. So we regularly have both children screaming and me tearing my hair out because neither of them will let dad do anything.

In terms of night feeds you're going to have to encourage older child to sit there and watch while you help - maybe they could get a muslin out the drawer or something while you help mum with position, and then once they're settled you take back to bed. Lots of encouragement to stay in bed, sticker charts, groclock etc

It doesn’t help with the immediate night time problem, but make sure you and your wife noticeably prioritise your toddler over the newborn every now and again. It’s really natural to think, well a toddler can wait but a baby can’t, but actually if baby is fed and dry and somewhere safe, it’s not going to hurt them to cry for 5 minutes while you get your toddler their drink first or finish the story you were in the middle of. It can really help some of those tricky feelings your older child has if they know baby doesn’t ALWAYS come first.

Honestly the only thing you can do is try to not wake the preschooler. Sorry, not helpful I know. But really, that's the key.

Are the adjoining doors open, are you traipsing up and down, is it the baby wailing, full volume conversation, creaky floorboards? Would white noise help?

Where does the third child sleep?

I think 3.5 is old enough for "sit there whilst I help Mommy (Mommy not baby) and then we'll go down. Put him in bed. No playing. Leave to go back to wife once he's asleep. Unfortunately you're just gonna have to suck up being tired cos, kids. It will get better.

The strange thing is the older boy doesn't wake up when the baby's crying that much, it seems to be at random times. He is a floor down from our room (not directly under) with two adjoining doors, so sound carry isn't an issue

And tiredness isn't the problem here (although I obviously am) , which is why I didn't mention it in my post. I know newborns make you tired, I remember from the first one 😊

Sorry to hear that, it sounds absolutely horrendous. I'm aware this is the best way round for it to be! For the nights, the groclock gets totally ignored, and he actually cut up his most recent sticker chart yesterday because he apparently doesn't need it any more 🤦‍♂️

I've also been through this from the mother's side, strongly preferred parent for the poorly-sleeping toddler and needed to breastfeed the newborn (although thankfully without a complicated recovery myself). It's really hard, and the dance between the two at night is particularly challenging.

In the day, definitely occasionally make baby wait for the three year old, and 'tell' this to baby for the benefit of the three year old, 'sorry, baby, I just need help DS do X before I pick you up'. It should eventually help DS feel that he doesn't always come second. Keep going on giving DS as much attention as you can, and perhaps also specifically look for times when you, DS, and baby can do something together, so he sees you can have fun as a three – going to the park/library/café with baby in the pram could be good because you mostly don't have to hold the baby. DD1 loved helping with DD2's bath, and DD2 loved the water, so that was a good 'fun as a three' activity for us in the early days.

In the night, one thing you could try is putting a baby monitor back in DS's room with the parent unit in your room. Then you can potentially talk/sing/recite a story to DS whilst helping with the baby. This sometimes worked for me, although certainly nowhere near 100% – but anytime you don't have to try to physically split yourself in two is a win.

If you are winding and settling at night, can you use a Yoto or audiobook for the toddler and pitch it that we are all going to listen to it because it helps the baby to rest too? Then it's a game to get baby and toddler rest. Everyone is in a dark room. When baby is asleep, can our baby down in basket, leaving you chance to cuddle toddler to sleep if still awake. I think lying in bed listening to something in the dark is a close second to actually sleeping, tbh

Thanks @skkyelark and @ChatBFP . The baby monitor is something I hadn't thought of!