Addressing social inequality between working parents

[zo2812]

Would like to understand and have experience with other parents that had young children when both parents worked.

Me and my husband both worked full time, I went back to work when my daughter was 9 months, I had a child minder to look after her. I cut my hours down to 30 while my husband worked the same 45 hours a week during that time.

I had a massive problem when my daughter was just over a year old and my child minder said she wished to take all of the years holiday (she had 2 months) with just one week notice . We were in a financially difficult situation where we both needed to work and I wasn't expecting to be in this situation, I advised my employer, they said no way I could take time off without losing my job..

Tried to split last of my holiday entitlement to cover time to find cover with my child with my husband, thinking I would maybe get a week holiday or emergency allowance, husband told me quote: my employer told me: that's for your wife to sort out, as it was apparently a woman's problem...

Was just thinking back and how difficult things were for working moms, hope things are better now and mums and dads don't face this, Is it still all on the working mum?

Made me angry, it's the expectation that mum should either stay home or if she works it's all on her.. am concerned about a mum to be at my work place and I feel society and women's rights have not come as far as we would hope... opinions?

That wasn't my experience, sorry it was yours. My husband and I work for the same company, we both went part time and split childcare and covered illness between us equally.

My kids are grown up now, but I see the men I work with taking turns to cover child sickness and holidays too.

That's so good to know, it's great for me to know that mums and dads are treated equally when it comes to childcare commitments.

It's to be understood, that a few years ago, it was still seen as not the norm for a dad to take time off for childcare, indeed even paternity leave, which was seen as totally unnecessary...

I've been a working mum with a partner and I faced a lot of sexism as my child was growing up, it was very difficult, I'm not talking about now...

My daughter is now 16, I just wonder how other parents faced the challenges when their children were younger, and wether things are better now? I hope so...

I'm a key worker and had to attend my place of work during COVID. DH's employer were great and very understanding about our family circumstances and he did all the home schooling and worked as and when he could (reduced/changed workload due to COVID/WFH) until the school reopened.

Colleagues experienced similar and I hope, overall, employer attitudes have changed.

Sorry smallassasin, I did misread your post, you are stating that your employer was happy for you to split illness between you both.

My question is this, as me and my husband were both in a poorly paid occupation, the same rights weren't guaranteed, it was made clear to us both that we certainly didn't have rights with regard to childcare... in fact 15 years ago my husband should have been entitled to 2 weeks paternity leave, but his employer said they had never heard of it so he didn't get it? I had to take maternity leave early and struggle alone for the first two weeks with a very difficult pregnancy....

Yes things are better now, I just wonder if things are fairer between the sexes now as they sure as hell weren't!!

Thank you jobmatch3000, I'm working with a mum to be and i hope things will be better for her! Obviously there was quite a lot of stigmatism and ignorance for me as now I'm older and it was expected for me to never have time off for any reason unless ill... despite my employer claiming to be family friendly and for my husband, he was told never . ..
So this was years ago, my daughter is now 16, have things got better? Are childcare commitments genuinely taken seriously between both sexes?

I'm only asking because it was not like that for me , hope it's changed because it was very different and extremely stressful!!

In my own experience it's not changed. I have used up all my AL this year on looking after kids for illness/injury and the last 4 days are booked for DC1's half days when he starts school as the after school club won't have him for the first week. I have no AL for a holiday, not even enough for a day trip.

I have no AL for my own medical appointments, which has meant I've been refused access to psychology as they wouldn't do the initial assessment on the only day of the week I don't work.

DH has taken 1 day off this year to watch one of the kids while they had a bug.

He has the bigger income (it would be closer if I could work full time but then there would be no one to sort out appointments etc, and I'd still be £5k less than him) and until the gender pay gap and penalties to women's careers from taking mat leave are sorted, this will keep happening. Show me a household that can afford for the main earner to take 50% of the time off with a sick kid.

I'm sorry Pinguins, this was my experience also, of having no actual time off which wasn't for childcare and extremely hard to get , booked for essential times for your children and never yourself.

It's overlooked and I think ignored , as it's a societal thing and if you ever complain your not being a good parent, dads don't always have the choice as it seen as a mum thing.

I remember feeling how unfair it was, it's hard now for me as a single mother that works and you have my utmost sympathy and respect, I think a lot has to be addressed as there's still a gap when both parents work and I think now more than before there's less compassion from employers for parents in general.

I have met single working dads who struggle as well as other mums and dads, the current climate has put most of us in the past.

I understand it's so hard, at the time I just had to think about the sacrifices I made for my daughter but I do understand the toll it takes both physically and emotionally being everything, it does get easier in time but its extremely exhausting, it's not always understood that you never have a day off and I became a very grumpy and stressed mum.. in time I think your child understands how much was done for them and appreciate it.

It's served as a good life lesson for my child , I think she appreciates it and will know what is done for her, children do understand. I spoke to my teen about my working alot as I felt such guilt but she actually remembered the good times and what effort was put in despite my working alot,she didn't remember that, but she remembered the times we had together.

My partner morphed after ds was born, developed some really regressive views and refused to do anything for ds - get up at nights, change nappies, help feed or care for, etc.

This was 2008. DS & I left in 2010.

I've raised ds solo with no practical support from ex at all, who has never done a school run, a doc's appt, a parent's evening, sick day etc. Thank goodness ds has always been healthy.

When it came to covering school holidays I planned as far in advance as possible. Holiday clubs for summer were always booked by Easter.

I'm not sure employers (or men) are more enlightened and supportive on average. Yes we have more work rights in theory but plenty of private companies still create practical obstacles to equality. DS is 15 now and I wfh so things are easy but you only have to read some of the stories on MN about lack of childcare to know it still isn't easy.

Wow. Not my experience. Do you definitely believe your husband...?

My DH did have difficulty moving to part time when DD was born, which was a bit frustrating as I had no difficulty and everyone seemed to expect it, but not for a man to do the same.... however, he has never had anyone argue with him taking a day off to pick up sick DD. Admittedly, it would still be mostly me for the younger ones, but that's not down to employer, he's just not as good with the toddlers as I am. When they are school age I assume we will split such incidences fairly evenly, although it will depend on workload at that time, which varies a bit.

I'm not sure how much that is a time issue but rather you:

1. Didnt have a good enough contract in place with the childminder that meant she could take 2 months holiday in one go with one weeks notice. What happened there? Did she come back to work at all? Was she dedicated to you or did she look after multiple children?

1. Your husband worked for a crap employer who didn't follow the law at the time

1. You could both have applied for unpaid parental leave of 4weeks each

Most of the protections and support in place now have been around since early 2000's but people either didn't know they could ask and/or companies didn't know either or ignored it.

My eldest is 16. DH and I have both always shared the time off when the kids were sick. And DS (11) has a chronic health condition that means he was in and out of hospital as a preschooler, we both used our annual leave to deal with that.

I know that some employers are really shit but I think your DH took advantage of you as well. He could have used his annual leave or had unpaid parental leave (DH did that a lot when the DC were young, he'd book it in advance for holidays so he could use his annual leave for the ad hoc days off with sick DC).

As for the childminder! I don't think what she did was in any way acceptable but this kind of thing was precisely why we used a nursery, we needed to know they would be open every day.

My kids are both over 18, so I am talking about some time ago, paternity leave was a normal thing then, so your husband's employers were definitely taking the piss!

Our employer is definitely a more family friendly one, and us both being part time meant it was easier to cover sickness, when we went to three long days and two short days each, the person on the short day did the sickness cover and we could plan a bit more around it, or bring home work when we knew it was our turn. I think it's easier now when we can work from home more practically too, though I know that doesn't work for everyone.

@pinguins you shouldn't have to use annual leave for medical appointments!

I don't recognise your experience, and my eldest is more than 10 years older than your dd.
Indeed my dn is 30, and this wasn't the experience of my db and SiL either.

If your husband was told he wasn't entitled to paternity leave, did he find the legislation that showed he was ? Go to HR ? Get his union involved ? Speak to ACAS ?

Is it the same employer? Presumably if your dh let them walk all over him once, then they knew they could do it again.

I know there are rubbish employers out there. I know people are sometimes treated unfairly, but the more you allow it, the more it will continue.

I'm sorry your dh's employers are so poor, but it doesn't mean that is the same everywhere.

DH works for a private bank in London. Best believe the city still don't believe in men taking time off for their children. Or women tbh it's one of the many reasons not many women work in the private banking sector.

Luckily my employer bends over backwards to help working families. I'd never leave the company I work for because of this.
So on my part it is still on the working mum but I knew this before getting pregnant and willingly had a child so can't complain.

Honestly I think a big aspect of it is that men don’t push for things to change because they don’t particularly want them to change. They don’t argue with employers to facilitate extra opportunities to do childcare because they don’t want to! Far easier to just say to your wife “I can’t look after sick baby, you’ll have to do it, work think it’s a mum’s job so are being difficult.” It was very noticeable during Covid when restrictions lifted and our office opened again for those who wanted to come in, how many of those who did were men freely admitting it was mainly to get away from the kids.

Where I work we get dad's taking time off. We have had new dads who stay late at the office socialising to avoid Bath bed time.