Nursery red flags or am I just overthinking?

[lulupanini]

Hiya,

Im going to put my 2yo in nursery in September.

The only issue is that I’m 23 and I have no clue what I’m looking for in terms of signs of a good vs bad nursery. I’ve viewed a few and have found one that i definitely like the most, more because they seem to have a SENCO on site which is very rare for a nursery. However I did pick up a couple of things that I wasn’t sure about and just wanted some impartial input on.

First of all, staffing. The nursery has two managers who do half the week each. They seem very close, like best friends. And on top of that they work with both their husbands, one being the admin and one being a handyman. Which isn’t bad in itself but I did question how professional they are if they’re working all together and are married and clearly very close. I worry if they all hold eachother to a professional standard, or if they will just sort of let things slide as they all are close. It just seemed a bit odd to me. Of course there are other staff there, they’re just management but it just sort of threw me off. I’m not sure if I’m overreacting. It’s not a dealbreaker for me, but just wondered if anyone thought it might be something to be wary of.

Another issue, is that despite me using my free 15 funded hours, they still want £3 an hour for “consumables”. I queried what that was for and they said they include nappies, food etc. I said can I just provide nappies and food as I can certainly provide all that for UNDER £3 an hour (which would be £15 for just a half day!) and I was told I could provide my own food if I wanted but the £3 per hour charge is necessary. It just seems a bit odd to charge £3 an hour. Even a nappy change every hour wouldn’t cost £3. And they do one snack and one lunch for the morning sessions she’d attend, and again, that wouldn’t cost much either. I’d be happy to pay £5, maybe £10 as a stretch but to charge hourly just for nappies, which I’m happy to provide myself, I’m not sure. Is this normal for nurseries?

Another little thing was that when I did email to query this I was told their admin was away and I’d have to wait until he got back to have my questions answered. This was in term time. Would you not cover your admin while he was away? Do they just go without an administrator and manager for a week if he and his wife (the other manager) goes away?

And finally, I’m again inexperienced so please educate me on this, but how do nursery deposits work? As I have been asked to transfer £100 as a deposit for my child’s space, then they will give me a registration form. Surely I’d receive the registration form first? Also, is it normal for people using funded hours to have to pay a large deposit? I’m very low income, £100 is going to be a substantial amount for me to just cough up.

Any advice or comments on this situation would be great. I’ve got no one to ask as I have no family or friends to talk to.

From earlier threads the top up fees are quite common, if a bit of a sneaky way to make up the difference for the nursery to make a profit. The deposit thing sounds inept procedure. They might be good at looking after children but their administration leaves much to be desired. I'd shop about a bit more before going with this one.

I'm 10 years older than you and you seem far more clued on than me OP! I think we're all a bit "floating at sea" with our first DC.

The charge for consumables is pretty standard and the nursery we use charge £15 a day. Eep. This incudes extra curricular activities like Spanish and Rugby.

I see it as a good sign, that the managers are married to each other. It means they are wholeheartedly invested in the business, and will work to make it a success. (probably have significant money invested in it).

But... sounds expensive and chaotic on the admin, so if you have time, I'd keep looking. Chaos might transfer into meals being late, nappies not checked, or vital admin like medical or safeguarding being lax. So that side is a red flag to me, and I'd keep looking for a better place.

Top-up fees are totally normal.

However

gut instinct is rarely off. I also went for a more 'Informal' set up nursery and it was a disaster,

If I were you I would go visit other nurseries and see how you feel. Sloppy admin was a big red flag for me.

You have a funded place - not a free place. The government contribution doesn’t cover the full cost of a place so top ups are charged. The alternative is the nursery making a loss on the place and closing down.

more because they seem to have a SENCO on site which is very rare for a nursery.

Really? All nurseries will have a named senco-they don’t need any specific qualifications like the masters-level accreditation that a school senco does though.

You don’t have a ‘free’ place, you have a partially funded place-best to get your head around that before starting.

Free places really aren’t free, they all charge top ups as the government funding isn’t enough to cover the costs.

I’d be much less concerned about management and admin and more concerned about how it feels to be there.

Did the staff seem engaged and happy? Are there some older staff or are they all very young? (Young is not bad but it can indicate a high turnover. If it’s a nice place to work there will be some staff who have been there a long time).

What were the children doing when you looked around? Did they seem happy? How did it feel?

Those things are much more important. Our nursery is rubbish at answering emails but the manager’s door is always open and you can pop in for a chat.

Have a look around some other nurseries OP and get a feel for the others. Even if there's nothing wrong with this one it's better you don't do into it with a bad gut feeling. Good luck xx

It all sounds pretty standard to be honest. Top up fees are normal, registration fees are normal, if it's not an urgent enquiry there is no harm waiting for a response until they're back. The personal set up is a bit odd but not necessarily a reason to not go there if you like it. Have a look at others so you know what to compare it to.

All nurseries have to have a named SENCO.

Consumable fees are common but £3 an hour is very high. £3 a day would be more usual.
However if you are on 2 year funding you shouldn't be charged a top up at all.

I'd look at other nurseries and childminders before making a decision.

My kids have attended 1 childminder and 2 nurseries under the funding (not at the same time obviously).

The childminder charged no ups but we paid a very reasonable amount for meals (very much cooked from scratch really really good quality).

Nursery 1 charged £5 per morning or afternoon session but that included snack and a cooked meal.

Nursery 2 we bring a packed lunch and there's no top ups, just a £5 termly optional contribution for craft equipment. They provide a fruit snack rich the children help grow in their allotment area.

So no, not all of them do charge top ups, or if they do, it's minimal.

1. All nurseries have to have a named SENCo

1. Completely normal for employees to take holidays in termtime unless it's a school nursery. And no, I wouldn't expect a nursery to cover admin while they were away.

1. Consumables charges are allowed. 'Free hours' are not free. You could try speaking to the finding team at the Local Authority to see if they feel that £3 per hour is a reasonable amount to be charging.

Choosing childcare is always likely to contain an element of compromise. No childcare is going to be 100% perfect all of the time. You just have to decide what your non-negotiable a are and find a setting which most closely aligns with your list.

The most important aspect of a nursery is the quality of the provision. So what has Ofsted said? Married couples would not bother me at all. Are you happy that the babies and toddlers are well cared for? Is this somewhere you trust to do what is required for your Dc? Did everyone seem happy.

Lots of nurseries are open for 50 weeks. Therefore staff will have holidays when the nursery is open. As long as they deal with your query in a timely manner, I think that’s ok.

What is £3 per hour meant to cover? Are the main meal ms included in this or not? If it’s nappies and a snack, it is £24 for an 8 hour day. So if it’s not for all food, nappies etc it does seem a bit high. What would the fee structure be if you were paying 100%?

Usually you complete all the forms and hand over the deposit at the same time. Do not do this unless you are sure you went the nursery. Ask if you get the deposit back when dc leaves.

Maybe make a spreadsheet with plus and minus columns and compare several nurseries?

I worked in a setting which had the free 2 year old funding spaces. We asked for nothing from parents. It was either five mornings or five afternoons. No extras for snack. You provided your own nappies. As for staffing, well these things happen. But I'd look at a few more places so you get a feel. When you go into one you'll know If it's right for you.

I think that’s high in terms of consumables; one nursery my DC attended charge £1 per day plus 0.70 for breakfast and 2.20 for cooked lunch but you could send a packed lunch. The other charge no extra for 9-3 and you take a packed lunch. I do appreciate that the funding rhe government provides doesn’t cover the costs but even so I think that’s a lot. £100 deposit also feels a lot, most I’ve come across is £45.
I think the close connection of the managers and husbands can go both ways but I’m inclined to agree with you.

Top up fees are very common although the nursery we use doesn't charge them (and a compulsory hourly charge is not technically allowed, but I'm aware from MN that's it's very common anyway. The places are not sufficiently funded). I also think that deposit is probably standard. As for covering the admin - bringing someone in for a week would be an additional cost for the nursery, I wouldn't expect them to do that. But tbh I would expect one of the other managers to be able to answer simple questions.

The husband/wife teams wouldn't worry me. The nursery we use is run by a couple and I don't think it's automatically an issue.

I would say that staff turnover is something to find out about, and even if you like this nursery, visit others to get a feel for different ones.