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Original poster

Struggling with violent behaviour of 4 year old - please help

12 replies

Moonshine160 · 16/07/2023 18:25

I feel like I’m doing something wrong. My 4 year old is becoming out of control. He is violent towards me and DH, he scratches, hits, kicks and tries to bite us if he doesn't get his own way. He has screaming tantrums which are getting worse and he will sometimes bang his head hard against a wall. He doesn’t listen to anything we say, for example if he asks for an ice lolly before his tea and we say no he goes and gets one anyway. If we then take the lolly from him, he will become violent or scream. He has started screeching right in the face of his 10 month old brother deliberately to make him cry.

This afternoon we nipped to the shop and because we wouldn’t let him have what he wanted (two cushions) he had a tantrum in the middle of the shop. Because he was still angry because we said no he then knocked a load of cards off the checkout counter. I picked them all up and as I held his hand and walked away he smacked me, dug his nails into my hands and knocked all the cards off the counter again. It’s embarrassing when we’re out in public especially as he’s a tall lad for his age and looks much older than 4.

To discipline him we take away treats. We remove screen time. He would sit and watch Netflix or YouTube kids on the iPad all day if we let him, obviously we don’t. Today for example, he was going to have a happy meal from McDonald’s as a treat but after the meltdown in the shop we didn’t get him one. I don’t know if all of this is the right approach because it seems to make him more frustrated and worsen his behaviour. I give him so much attention despite having a 10 month old as well. He struggles playing alone, he always wants an adult to play with him and I always make time for him and give him loads of praise and love. He gets one on one time both with me and DH. I’ve tried reward charts and adding/removing stars based on his behaviour but this didn’t work whatsoever.

He starts school in September. He has been going to preschool twice a week and they describe him as the complete opposite to how he is at home. They say he is shy, quiet, one of the best behaved kids there. They have no concerns about him. Then when he gets home he lets all his emotion out and I feel like I’m the punch bag. Nobody else sees this behaviour other than when me and DH are there.

Any advice please? I am getting increasingly anxious and stressed about his worsening behaviour.

OP posts:
itsgettingweird · 16/07/2023 18:55

I'd look at visual timetables.

So when you go to shops show him he's going in the car, going into shop - make it clear you aren't buying anything, then to mc Donald's and then home. He gets to choose what activity he wants when home.

I'd make the home activity behaviour dependent.

I know many will say he doesn't deserve at happy meal because of his behaviour but if he loses that and then loses something else at home because of his reaction to losing that you'll get into a cycle that there's no point him trying to manage his emotions.

When you're out and he asks for something remind him of the timetable and show him. Remind him once you've finished your getting a happy meal and then doing x.

Recognise and name his feelings. Acknowledge not getting what he wants is frustrating but they were lovely cushions and with birthday/ Christmas or whatever coming up they'd be a great thing to put on his list if people want to get him a gift.

Some children really struggle to manage their emotions and you have to remain consistent and as patient as a saint! But eventually they'll get it if they get lots of positives encouraging them to make the effort.

Whatisityoucantface · 16/07/2023 19:05

This sounds so tough! I don’t really have any great advice except he sounds like my brother as a child. My mum took him to the GP as he was so unmanageable at home but apparently great at school. The GP told her he was either v intelligent and getting frustrated and bored by things or needed a lot of physical activity to tire him out. Both were true it turned out.

AuntieJune · 16/07/2023 19:14

How long has he been like this?

Sometimes when a sibling changes from a baby to a toddler, the older one can get very threatened because all of a sudden it's the same kind of creature as them, can grab toys and run around etc. They don't feel competition from a baby but a toddler is another child and can make them insecure.

If your 10mth old has started walking and talking that might be a factor?

Original poster
Moonshine160 · 16/07/2023 21:34

@itsgettingweird ”I know many will say he doesn't deserve at happy meal because of his behaviour but if he loses that and then loses something else at home because of his reaction to losing that you'll get into a cycle that there's no point him trying to manage his emotions.” - this is so true, I didn’t think of that. Thanks for your reply, it’s really helpful.

@Whatisityoucantface thank you for your reply. Yes he is very intelligent and eager to learn. I’m hoping school in September will help (or it could make things worse)

@AuntieJune we really went through the “terrible twos”, it was awful, then we hit a turning point when he turned 3 and he was a delight. The recent behaviour has been going on for a good couple of months. DS2 can’t walk or crawl yet but we’ve had a lot of stress recently because he’s been diagnosed with a heart defect which requires surgery within the next year so maybe DS1 has picked up on that stress? He definitely seems better when it’s just me and him. When DH and DS2 are around he’s worse. I’m having a morning with him on our own tomorrow so it’ll be nice for him to get all my attention for a while

OP posts:
NuffSaidSam · 16/07/2023 21:47

The problem is that this is behaviour he can't control. He isn't thinking to himself 'I'm furious about this cushion business, I know what I'll do, I'll knock all the cards off the till, that'll show em'. At this point he has lost control. It's then of absolutely no use to punish him for this and expect it to alter his behaviour going forward. It'd be like having a child with hayfever and rewarding or punishing them based on whether they sneezed or not. It's out of their control.

You need to stop it getting to the point he loses control. Expectation management is key for this. So outline what will happen including 'we're only buying X, nothing else'. Go through it step by step, making sure to cover anything that is likely to crop up (e.g. wanting sweets at the till). Always give a time a warning when transitioning between activities. Keep screen time to an absolute minimum as this doesn't help behaviour or mood in general. Try and preempt hunger/boredom/tiredness/overwhelm whatever his big triggers are.

In addition, work with him when he is calm and responsive on anger management. Make a den/safe space for him where he can go when he feels anger bubbling up (and you can remove him to when he kicks off). Make it soft (lots of cushions) and soothing (some fairy lights/teddies etc). Role play frustrations using his teddies/Lego people/puppets and get him to say what they should do instead of hitting etc. Teach him to take deep breaths and count to ten. Scream into a pillow. Whatever he needs to calm down. Google calm down toys and make/buy some. Talk about your anger and what you do when you feel angry. Let him know it's a normal emotion but he needs to learn better ways to manage it. There is a good book called Robbie and the Raah that might be worth reading together.

cloudsintheceiling · 16/07/2023 22:06

He sounds a bit like my son who has ASD at that age.

Original poster
Moonshine160 · 17/07/2023 13:16

@NuffSaidSam thank you, this is so helpful and so true. Maybe since he’s become a big brother I am expecting too much of him and seeing him as older than what he is when 4 years old is still so young. I can definitely create a safe cosy space for him

@cloudsintheceiling it has certainly crossed my mind and I’ve spoken with his preschool about it but they said they have no concerns about ASD. However he is literally like a different child there compared to how he is at home. His behaviour is always worse when he gets home from preschool too so I’m wondering if he’s really working hard to mask his behaviour. He is really obsessive about certain things too. He isn’t interested in toys. His only interests are wires, leads, electrical circuits, pipes, basically anything that connects to something else. His latest thing is also keys and putting them into doors.

OP posts:
SusiePevensie · 17/07/2023 13:31

Look into collaborative problem solving. It can get used in a very permissive way, but doesn't have to be. The basic premise is that kids do well if they can - because life is a lot easier and nicer if they do. So if they're failing to behave it's because they lack the skills. And the way they learn the skills is by working with you to find solutions.

Take the shop experience. You're working from two assumptions a) that he knows how to behave and can do it b) that it's your job to figure out which mix of rewards and punishment will incentivise him to do it.

Under collaborative problem solving you choose a calm quiet moment and talk about the shop experience. Importantly, you don't ask why he behaved badly, you ask why the shop was tough for him. You're not telling him off - the two of you are on the same team and trying to fix things.

You listen and reflect back to him what he says. This might take a while. You then say what your concerns are. So - he might say that the lights were too bright, or he really needed two cushions for a game he'd planned. Whatever - kids' concerns often turn out to be very different from what adults think they might be.

Then you say your concerns - 'I want to be able to take you out and do nice stuff but I can't if you are like that'. Or whatever is right for you.

Then - and this is the key bit - you work together on ideas to deal with that situation next time. Not general 'shopping' ideas. Specific ideas for that shop. The ideas might not be great, but you try them out and work on them. He might want to walk round with his eyes shut. Or only go on Wednesdays when the nice man is at the counter. Or wear his superman outfit. Again, kids' solutions can be wacky, but it's that thinking up solutions and testing them that builds up the skills.

Slowly, gradually, he builds up whatever skill is lacking.

itsgettingweird · 17/07/2023 15:53

He isn’t interested in toys. His only interests are wires, leads, electrical circuits, pipes, basically anything that connects to something else. His latest thing is also keys and putting them into doors.

My ds has asd.

He use to have circuit makers that connected via poppers and he now uses a lock breaking kit (he's 18!!!) to fiddle with.

These could be great toys for him to have to use in a quiet space and help re focus him.

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