Toddler bedtime taking hours - help!

[MyUsernameIsBetterThanYours]

Looking for advice on how to manage bedtime with our 17 month old.

He’s never been great at getting to sleep, always needed to be held, but bedtimes have been awful lately and getting worse.

We do bathtime from about 6:30 and bedtime 7ish, it moves a bit, we try to take it from his tired signals, eg when he’s starting to get a bit cranky. He has stories and cuddles.

He will often start off fine and make all the signs of being sleepy and going to sleep but then he’ll sit up and want his sippy cup, or go to his books, or head to the door and that’s when the meltdowns start because he wants out of the room. It’s taking an hour most nights now and up to 2 hours several times a week. It’s exhausting and I need my evening back.

Other things that are relevant to sleep:

• I think his final molars are coming through because he’s dribbling a lot on his pillow
• He sleeps on mattress on the floor because he started refusing to be put in his cot shortly after turning one
• We’ve tried a later bedtime, I don’t think it has had an effect, but I suppose we should try again
• Perhaps we need to cut his nap, which is generally 12:30-2:30. Sometimes it might be longer if he goes down earlier.

Please help save my sanity!

Oh and just to be clear the part that is taking 1-2 hrs is from him being in PJs after his bath ready to start story time through to him being asleep and me being able to leave the room

No advice. Just solidarity. This too shall pass. At that stage I spent a lot of time lying, and sitting on bedroom floors with my ear buds in, listening to podcasts or reading on my phone.

I literally cannot do that. If he sees the phone he wants to play with it or watch stuff on it. Likewise pulls the earbuds out of our ears - he's obsessed with anything electronic like remotes, phones, etc. Potentially that's a message to us that we need to use them far less around him to make them less valuable from his perspective!

Difficult when your phone is also your camera and you want to capture them being cute!

Maybe time to bring out the kindle.

We had a rough patch and about 17/18 months that lasted about 5 weeks before she went back to normal. There is another sleep regression around this time.

Have you got a black out blind it is light now? Maybe try a toddler bed with a side so it's harder for him to keep getting out x

Read up on gradual withdrawal...I do it by sitting next to them gentle had on but ignoring apart from on the first getting up lay down it's bed time then after that lay down no words. He's had a drink so doesn't need another it's a game don't play it. The first week will take around an hour but you should slowly see improvement then not need the hand before over a few days moving further away. You must be consistent and not give up as then it's worse than ever.
It's light now so a good time as you can take a book or something.....you don't let them up so they can't take things off you.

I get him trying to rip out ear buds but surely that's a rare thing for you to be using when he's around so not really an issue put one in at his bed time and listen to something....and make the rule that your phone is a no touch not a toy.

I had this with my first child who took 2 hours every night (and only me doing it he refused DH flat out). It was soul destroying.

It changes over time but I do think the nap needs to change (either earlier, shorter or not at all)
I think my son switched from 2 naps to one and then the one became a half hour or so at nursery and at that point bedtime became much faster and even faster when dropped completely. On weekends though he may still have naps (4yrs old! If he's had a big day and if that's the case we know we can't let him sleep past 3 to keep bedtime at 7.30) so if he does then we know not to try bedtime before 8 or something otherwise it's too frustrating and a waste of time as he isn't tired enough..

I still need to be there but he falls asleep much faster however we are still in the trap of giving him a bedtime snack which is obviously not great for teeth!
He has a sippy cup at his bedside too but I don't mind that.

The key is consistency. Read a book in a normal voice/pace but for subsequent books bring the time down, slower, softer etc.
If DS was mucking around I would use a firm voice and tell him to lie down. If he kept on I would turn my back and go silent until he lay down. That basically set us up for him knowing bedtime meant bedtime.

When I became pregnant I had to get DH doing the bedtimes and be did make a bit of a fuss but DH switched it up and got into bed with ds, makes him super cosy and read the book so he just drifts off. so now DS will happily have or DH do them - we try to alternate but I can't tell you how good that felt having some nights "off" not doing bedtime! I'd be sitting on sofa at 7.30 pm wondering what to do with myself!

Apart from that Alli can say is things to just change as they get older. But I know that may not be super helpful right now!

Oh and I definitely wouldn't have my phone in the room or anything

What about using a night light that projects shapes onto the ceiling so when he lays down there's something to distract him? We use lullaby lambs and after some songs it goes on to whitenoise stuff and that helped him drift off too.

We also bought a yoto player but that's maybe for a year down the line. We have sleepy stories that are good to drift off to or just the radio on the yoto which is super peaceful and calm at night.

We had this so we moved her back into her cot using the methods in this book (as recommended on here when I was at my wits end): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Baby-Sleep-Solution-stay-support/dp/1472269152/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2D3M5LC0IAS52&keywords=sleep+book+for+baby&qid=1688977683&sprefix=sleep+book+for+bab%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-6
She accepted being back in her cot better now she's a bit older than when she wouldn't go in it at all.

I remember those days. I used to lie on the floor on a spare duvet and hide my kindle under their bed and read. Eventually when they dropped their nap it all got better because they were exhausted by bed time.

What time is he getting up? I'd definitely consider whether you're trying to get him to sleep more than he needs. (Caveat, both mine are low sleep needs, so unfashionably late bedtimes and short naps are the norm in our house.) Prolonged and regular bedtime antics have usually meant time to drop or shorten a nap.

If you have a water bottle or cup that he can drink from but is unlikely to make a mess with, I'd also definitely consider leaving that near his bed. It removes the 'one more drink' element from the game, but if he genuinely wants some water, it's there.

You can't leave a 17 month old alone with a drink if they lie down with a drink they can dry drown.

@jannier ok that sounds terrifying. Can you please signpost information I can read on this? We’ve been leaving his tommee tippee near his bed. He can’t actually open it himself but I’m pretty sure I’ve let him sip from it lying down in bed.

@skkyelark you might be right there, he often wakes at 5/5:30 if he sleeps through. He’s only had an hour nap today so we’ll see if that makes a difference.

Thanks everyone, lots of good advice.

I don’t know what cup you’re using OP but we give our toddler a drink of water to help himself to overnight too and never considered it risky. I’ve tried thinking about it and I just cannot see how a no spill straw cup like we have could even be drunk out of lying down. We only fill it half way (don’t want the nappy to leak!) and you have to hold it completely upright to get any water out of it at all. So if you’re lying down or even tipping the cup just a little you’ll get nothing out if it. I have no idea whether the risk quoted by a PP is real (never heard of it personally but of course that means nothing) but assuming it is a real thing then it could probably be mitigated by swapping to a straw cup.

Also we had the same re bedtime, I think it’s really common around 18 months. I will say that gradual retreat was a horrific disaster as he’d stir and wonder where we’d gone and it caused night wakings like we hadn’t had since the newborn period. In the end we stuck a stair gate on the door and left him to shout and sat out of sight but within earshot repeating ‘it’s bedtime night night’ every so often and it was sorted within a couple of nights.

Children should always drink or eat sat up or if babies fed bottles at an angle not flat if they are sucking to sleep the water can pool in the mouth and be inhaled it can also cause sinus problems. ....would you drink or eat laid down let alone sucking from a sports bottle when drifting off to sleep?

Limit his nap, start by getting him up by 2pm, no later, see how that works, then reduce to 145 or 130.
Persistance will pay off.
Have bath, pj's, story, cuddle and lie him down. Say good night's and walk out, lights off etc.
If he cries, go in, reassure, give quick cuddle, and lie back down before walking out again.
It might take a while at first but it will reduce and he will learn to take self off to sleep.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear, should have read back my post before posting - I did not mean letting him drink lying down as he drifts off to sleep, or that he'd be capable of getting himself a drink at this age. I meant having a cup or bottle to hand so that if he wants a drink, it's a simple sit up, have a drink, back down. Minimum fuss and minimum stimulation, but allows that he might actually be thirsty.

Just for comparison, DD2 is 16 months, and she sleeps roughly 8pm to 6 or 6.30 in the morning, naps an hour, maybe a little longer. DD1 was similar. We prefer the later bedtime to avoid the 5am start.

I know a lot of people aren't a fan of it, and neither was I until I did it, but we did the CIO/extinction method when DD was 11 months, she was always cuddled to sleep before that so we always had that little wait anyway, but one day she started waking up every 1-2 hours and crying for me (not DH) if he went in she'd carry on crying for me and as soon as I walked in she would settle, so I figured she was trying it on somewhat. It went on for a couple of weeks like that and I was losing my mind, I work at home in the evenings till around 2am, so I was being interrupted through the evening, then getting up with her at 4, then up for the day at 7, I knew at that point something had to change, she was not happy at all and I was exhausted.

So when DH was on nights I tried the CIO method, we do bathtime, pjs and story in our room like we always did, then cuddle and bottle in her room, then night night kisses and straight into bed. She stood up and cried for 15 minutes that first night, then lay down and went to sleep and slept through 12 hours, I was bloody gobsmacked, but knew that was the answer. It took 5 days of similar protests and day 5 she went on a bit longer but apparently that's quite common as the last ditch effort to get you to give in and she's slept brilliantly ever since, goes to bed awake, says 'night night mummy' and drifts off to sleep by herself, was much more happier in the daytime too after a proper night's rest.

Not all kids take to it the same way, but if you are willing to try sleep training just read up on the methods and pick which one you think may work best for your little one, I knew the ferber method would be no good for us because she would get angry and upset if I went back in.

I think the nap may be problematic for you too, our DD is 2 and a half now and she doesn't nap in the daytime anymore unless she's up super early for some reason, she hasn't napped in the day since she was 18 months ish, and even if she did I was always putting her to bed at 9-10ish at night because she just wasn't tired enough to sleep, and I felt mean putting her to bed when I knew she wouldn't be able to sleep. Now she's not napping, she just conks out straight away.

I'm in the same boat with my 4 year old. Never been able to nail it! She's goes to nursery 9 till 3 and obviously no naps. Still takes minimum of 3 hours to get her to sleep at night and if I try leave her on her own for any of that time, she cries until she vomits. So I have to be in the room the whole time. Can't tell you how fed up I am with the whole thing

Ditto re the nap situation.

Just had DC3 so could really do with that nap time during the day DC 2 has just turned 2. It can be hard with no nap as in keeping her awake so she tends to have a nap every few days but not longer than 1-1 1/2 hours or she will never sleep!

Sleep regression wise we just kept to routine, toddler asked for toys, food, socks, you name it she would make up any excuse to delay time. Just consistently and calmly keep to your script. "Its time to sleep now, good night" etc. otherwise you really are digging a hole for yourself if you start giving into demands. An over tired child can be even harder to get to sleep too! Good luck, we can all sympathize ❤️

Consistency - no screens in the 1 - 2 hours before bed, good sleep hygiene (lots on NHS website if needed), set bedtime, set routine so he knows what's coming. I'd suggest a short bath around an 1 hour before bed to begin his bedtime routine, then pj' etc, wind down, story time and aim to be in bed ready for sleep 15 minutes before bedtime, e.g., have ended story time etc.

I used controlled crying but I know it's not everybody's cup of tea. So if you prefer something gentler as he's on a mattress already maybe google return to bed.... he needs to know you mean business and there's no option to go out the room. If you want to stay in the room you could but you need to be boring to him! It mostly involves putting him back in bed many, many, many times over a few nights.

I really wouldn't drop the nap either, 2 hours is age appropriate at 17 months for most children - not all though. From what you say i'd guess he's testing boundaries rather than under tired which is totally normal.

After dinner get her playing outside on a bike or running to the park etc. Home, cosy milk, night light bed and books

My nearly 2 yo went through similar a couple of months ago. I started doing much much later bedtimes, she's always had a lateish bedtime of 8 but when it was taking over an hour to get her down it was really wearing me down. So I began starting her stories around twenty minutes before the time she'd fallen asleep the previous night (1 or 2 stories then fed to sleep) so even though it meant she wasn't going to sleep until half 9ish it was more relaxed than trying to force her to sleep when she wasn't ready. It took about a week or so but it slowly crept back to about half 8.

We also haven't been able to let her nap for more than an hour for ages now and since she had that stint of particularly late bedtimes we now try and make sure she naps before lunch, between around half 10 and 12 so she's waking no later than 1ish.

This was us last year. It started when he was about 15 months old and we let it go on until he was about 18-19 months, I was at my wits end. Something needed to change. He has always been a demanding child so I needed my down time in the evening - I wasn't prepared to give up my evenings too, to get him to sleep and then only have 1 hour to myself before needing to go to bed.

My husband wasn't so keen on doing any kind of 'training', so he volunteered to do all the bedtimes. 1 week later he was where I was and ready to do something about it 😆

So, we went cold turkey and put him down in his cot and left the room. We only stood outside his door in the hallway. Waited for him to cry (inevitable) and went back in, put him down again, and left the room again. The rule was - be boring, and be consistent. We said the same things, "it's bed time. Mummy and daddy are here, but it's bedtime". Said the same thing over and over, in a really dull and boring voice. Didn't react to his tricks or trying to get our attention. Only picked him up to put him back down again right away - no extra cuddles or conversation. Left the room. Rinse and repeat. This continued for about an hour the first night, 20mins night 2, 10 mins night 3, and nothing night 4. We couldn't believe it.

I know people will judge this, but he knew we were right outside his door, we never let him get hysterical, kept going back in etc so he was never "abandoned".

Just remember it's not a straight line - he's now 2.5 and sometimes decides he's going to stop going to bed for us - lasts about a week or 2 each time - but we keep resorting back to the same technique, be consistent and be boring - and he eventually learns we aren't going to give in.

Thanks again everyone. I think outside play and running around after dinner for a little bit is a good idea, he’s a very high energy child, always on the go.

Definitely don’t want to lose the nap entirely, but I will try shortening. Interestingly he only had an hour yesterday because we were going somewhere and thought he’d go back to sleep in the car but he didn’t - bedtime was easy last night!

@Cindy1802 @Leila234 I really do want to do that kind of training because I don’t want him so totally reliant on us to get to sleep (he manages to put himself to sleep at nursery!) I think the not getting hysterical part will be tricky as he can easily go from 0-100 in terms of meltdown at bedtime.

I don’t want to go down there late bedtime route, I need some evening for my own mental health.

Try moving the daytime nap earlier so 11.30-1.30 so it’s right in the middle of the day with the wake window in the morning being roughly the same as the one before bedtime. Seems the nap is a bit too late so he’s not properly tired at 7pm.

Try a solid routine. No messing around. Dark room. No over excitingly playing in the bath/after bath etc. Put a night light on in his room before bath so it’s low lighting when taking him to bed. Read a book a few times, plus warm milk and a cuddle then lights out. I had to rock mine to sleep until he was 3 and put him in a cot asleep, people say don’t do this but he fell asleep every single nap and nighttime within 5 mins.