Sleep routines for nearly 4 year old

[Fuzzyduck31]

Just looking for some advice on how to keep my 4yo DD in bed when it is bedtime.
Ever since she has been moved from the cot (at approx 2.5y) she has never jut 'gone to bed'. I am now nearly 2 years in and wondering is there some key component I am missing or is there something wrong?
Our bedtime routine is currently

• dinner, TV off and then tidy up the playroom
• upstairs for bath with her brother, teeth brushed then 2 stories for DS, put him to bed
• back in her bed another 2 stories for her, lights off leave the room

This is then followed by 20+ episodes of getting out of bed. She has water next to the bed and the toilet is next door to her room. I generally sit on the landing outside her room as if she gets down the stairs she then lies at the bottom of the stairs so I have to physically carry her up the stairs which she gets a thrill out of. The first couple of times I might say something simple like 'back to bed' and lead her back to bed, then the next 500 times I am silently walking her back into the bed (where she then lies upside down/ half in half out etc)
I am at the end of my tether and considering getting professional help. I can't ask anyone to babysit unless it is imperative as I don't feel like it is fair on anyone else having to go through this rigmarole for sometimes up to two hours.

Please if anyone has any steps that I have obviously missed please can they enlighten me or if there is something I am doing wrong which is encouraging this behaviour?

What time does she go to bed? Is it the same time as her brother and how old is he?

Baby gate on her bedroom door.

Does she get enough time alone with you and attention from you during the day?

Stop carrying her up the stairs. Tell her to get up and go to bed.

Would she stay in bed if someone sat with her? What time is bed? Is she tired enough?
DD is almost 4 and we have a similar routine to you but after we've read a book then she chooses an audio book to listen to on her yoto player and me or my husband sit with her until she drifts off (usually about 20 mins), she enjoys listening to stories or music and knows she'll only get to if she stays in bed so we rarely have an issue.

We found stuff like devices/tv was the kicker. So we literally went no tv etc for a year or so before bed. Just simple food, bath, reading time, bed. and it really helped. But my oldest 4 year old was INTENSE - it took him about another 2 years to fully learn to tsettle for bed, but truly, no devices or tv really helped those coule hours pre-bed.

Thank you so much for your replies so far. I considered a baby gate but I think it will just be another fun obstacle to climb over (unless it is taller than she is?)

By the time I have read the two books etc it is normally around 7pm. Not sure if that is too early? She does seem to be tired after dinner.
Thank you for the tip about the audiobook, it is nearly her birthday so could get her something similar.

Thanks for this - what sort of time did you stop TV? I find that I do something with them straight after school til about 4.30/5 then they have dinner and I can let them watch an episode of something after this so that I can clean the plates away. Then the TV is off by 5.30/6 and they are upstairs doing bath, playing in their rooms, then stories singing and bed. I would ban TV completely if it meant her going to and staying in bed!

7pm seems really early. My 2.5 year old goes to sleep closer 8/8.30. But he still naps a bit in the day. When he skips his nap, he still only goes to bed 7.30.

Thank you, maybe it is too early? I think I was worried about missing the sweet spot and she becomes overtired. I also eat after they have gone to bed so might switch that up so I am not hurrying them to bed so I can finally eat dinner!

My 4 yr old starts bedtime routine at 615pm and asleep by 7. So I don't think it's too early.

What if you tell her you are going for a shower and you will come back and see her once you are out? If one of mine is having trouble letting me go in the evening the this usually works cause they can hear the shower running next door and know I am there. 9 times out of 10 they are both asleep by time I come out.
Sometimes if I feel I need some extra 'connection' time with the kids we play a game after bath time. Only after they are completely ready for bed then we might play a board game or a card game or a running around game if they are full of wiggles. If we have had a hectic day we all really like just to have some quality time together and send them to bed happy. Sometimes bath and bed time routine winds my 2 up so something fun once all that done, helps us all relax before stories and bed.

Thank you I will try both of these ideas! What board/card games would you recommend? She really likes the memory/snap game but think that could get a bit monotonous...

Might be a bit early my DD was 3 in April and gets in to bed around 7.45pm and falls asleep fine, asleep by 8pm ish. Wakes around 7.30am. Maybe try 30 mins later.

Do you have black out blinds? It's very light at the moment and that might not be helping. Have you tried a reward chart if she doesn't keep getting out of bed. My daughter tends to be pretty motivated by these x

Thank you I will try this too. We used this before for behaving at nursery (!) so will try that too. Thank you for all your advice.

7pm seems early: DD is just four and goes to sleep at 8pm. We still sit with her to go to sleep though she’s starting to sometimes drift off if we pop out for a made-up reason.

After all the shenanigans, what time does she actually go to bed? Can you keep a diary to see what her actual sleep time is, then do bedtime for then? She can then have some 1-2-1 time after her brother goes to bed, which might help?

Agree on a reward chart. And having her draw up the bedtime routine with you: a little pictorial numbered list of what the routine is, that goes up on her bedroom wall, so she feels she’s in control of her bedtime – lots of discussion about this, maybe she wants 3 stories not 2, or a cuddle before toothbrush, or whatever it is. Obviously you’re in control and she can’t have ten unicorns and you lying with her til she sleeps and chocolate milk, but it’s a key part of her day and she’s an active participant. Friends have had luck with this strategy of getting the child’s input into what works and what doesn’t about bedtime.

Picture dominoes is a favourite just now. We also have matching pairs and a couple of lotto games. Orchard Toys have a good selection of simple card games and board games that aren't too long so keep the kids interested. We have a snakes and ladders with moveable parts that my 3.5yo loves and a Magnetic fishing game.

@Fuzzyduck31 we had to switch up when we eat too as I ended up hangry and I think it rubbed off on DS, and then he acted up more.

Now I eat at 7ish and he watches one last episode of baby shark or something. Then around 7.30, it's bath (not every night) and we do puzzles or search and find books in his room for 10 mins then it's story/ and teeth. DH and I alternate staying in the room until DS is asleep, usually until 8.30ish.

It works for us as we only have 1 child.

Really? We don't get home until 5.30/6pm. Can't imagine starting bedtime at 6.15.

Does she wake up super early ?

Wakes around 6am.