Is hitting children really the worst thing? (trigger warning)

[johnd2]

So I know this is going to be a controversial topic with an avalanche of triggered replies, so please read carefully to avoid flying off the handle without reading properly!

Before I had kids I assumed that hitting was the ultimate bad thing against a child and everything else (that's legal) that a parent could do would be less bad. I'm not talking about escalating to broken bones or other things, I'm meaning the traditional smacking/slipper/belt or whatever they favoured in times gone by. I'm calling it hitting because that's basically what it is.

But since being a parent I can't really work out why hitting is such a taboo, when there are so many other things that are acceptable but surely do more damage to the children long term?
For example demeaning/shaming your child, controlling them by rejecting them based on whether you approve of their behaviour or not (aka ignore the behaviour you don't like, praise the behaviour you do like), etc etc.

So my question is, is hitting worse or is the associated rejection worse, even if imposed without hitting?

I don't think it's an either/or, is it? There are ways to parent that don't involve either approach.

Oh absolutely! Totally agree.
I just thought hitting was the ultimate sin even though legal here, but after my son hit his head for the millionth time and cried, as I sat and comforted him just now, I realised rejection would be far worse than physical pain.

I wondered if I was late in realising it!

No there are several types of child abuse, physical abuse is the most overt one, but there's also sexual abuse, emotional abuse and neglect. The other terrible things that befall a child can generally be boiled down into these categories. None of them are "better" or "worse" than each other, they can all leave lasting damage and traumatise a child or cause them to develop serious mental illnesses such as personality disorders. Demeaning or humiliating a child or shouting at them excessively would all come under "emotional abuse".

Thanks @BiscuitsandPuffin that's useful context

Agree with others - hitting isn't the worst you can do. Other stuff just comes under other categories of abuse and none are effective parenting methods or good for your child

I think the trauma inflicted by emotional abuse can be just as bad but I suppose there is a spectrum of parenting. There is very authoritarian parenting at one end and very permissive/neglectful parenting at the other end and in that spectrum are a wide variety of parenting methods which we all choose to agree or disagree with. I think hitting is one of those things that is very easy for most of us to see as black and white. Most would agree that raising your hand to a child is wrong but when talking of that spectrum there is more of a range of opinion. I suppose that is why hitting is more often thought of as the ‘ultimate bad thing’.

Yeah I guess my OP could be boiled down to "I just realised you can mess up a child for life without breaking the law or hitting them" which is probably the biggest statement of the obvious on Mumsnet! 🙄

😂😂

I just thought hitting was the ultimate sin even though legal here

It's not legal in Wales, Scotland or Jersey - in all three hitting a child is a specific criminal offence.

I've definitely seen instances of parents using time out or shouting at their children and thought that a smack would probably have been kinder. Actually, I haven't seen anyone use time out for years other than to sit with a child and help them calm down but when I had my first 13 years ago it was regularly used as a punishment by parents.

I always thought that just making hitting taboo without doing anything to equip parents with better skills, was pointless.

There are a lot of harmful practices. And it is incredibly difficult to break generational cycles. Even if you have the time, energy and resources to seek out new methods, it’s still hard.

Yes, totally agree with Puffin.

I also don't think that smacking is always going to be terribly traumatising - there is some research that shows when it occurs in a context of everyone around you getting disciplined that way it's less harmful for example, and many adults seem to have memories of being smacked that they don't find traumatic.

I DON'T think it's a good idea before you all come at me. You don't know how it will affect your specific child, and there are a million better ways to discipline.

But I agree OP it isn't necessarily the worst thing you can do (it does cross a line and I wouldn't recommend anybody does it).

My friend’s dm never hit her dc, but would give them the silent treatment, sometimes for days on end.

This was back in the 70s/80s and she was quite outspoken about how wrong smacking was. In her mind she was treating her dc with respect.

It wasn’t obvious back then what she was doing. That only emerged in recent discussions. I don’t honestly believe the odd tap did me any lasting harm but my friend is pretty screwed up.

I'd just like to say I was quite nervous before starting this thread, but almost every post has a great and helpful insight, so big thanks everyone so far🤗

I was given several smacks which I remember when I was a child, going back to the mid 80's none traumatised me but I can see the effects of emotional abuse by a covert narcissistic mother to a friend of mine now, the mother who is in her 60's and had her children young. She would do the silent treatment, constant criticism, parental alienation and getting another man involved and turning all 4 young kids against their biological father leading to years of hurtful abuse against him from the children who eventually grew up and all left to move parts of the world, changed their name to the step fathers surname, told the kids to tell social services /court welfare officers that their bio dad was violent and they didnt want to see him, and how much they hated him, turns out back in the late 80's it was acceppted and they let a 4-9 year old children tell them that without questioning parental alienation. Bio dad fought hard in court to see his children but step and mum would regularly the kids how he was abusive and hated the kids. He didn't, he really tried to see them. But no carcass then or anyone prepared to do a more throughout investigation. They were all seeing their bio dad until mum met another man before divorce was finalised. Really messed up bio dad and the kids as they all dislike each other. 3 estranged from their mother and don't have contact with bio dad..friend puts up with mother as she now plays the poor victim and feels sorry for her. She would regularly set siblings up against each other by telling one that the other said horrible things about them so they would argue and would enjoy watching the fall out. I think my little snacks were nothing compared to what these poor kids went through was mild. All adults now with children of their own and of out 4 only 1 allows contact with the mother. Goodness knows why as she isn't any better really but having met her plays the victim so well but when you know can see through it as she even tried to lie to me about what someone said to get me to react and we would fall out. 🙄

There are so many ways to fuck up your kids! It's terrifying! Larkin was right.

I guess the thing about smacking/hitting being singled out is because it is an objective fact as well as terrible parenting- either it happened or it didn't, and it's easier to prosecute, or at least warn against in a sort of Parenting 101 way.

The other stuff- emotional abuse, rejection, constant demeaning/criticism- all just as harmful in their own way perhaps, but much harder to objectively assess, report, prosecute etc. Much more of a grey area, even if things are changing for the better.

From a personal perspective, I have never and would never lay a hand on my children but there have been Bad Days when I feel I've criticised too much, been unnecessarily harsh, too shouty, made mountains out of molehills, nitpicked, snapped etc etc- the list goes on!!!- and you think: "hmmm, there are indeed plenty of ways to be a Bad Parent. (Or maybe just a tired, stressed one.)

Incidentally my mum did smack me twice, once as a toddler and once as a teenager- I remember being shocked and upset by the latter but there were other facets of her parenting that I believe have left far deeper scars.

I agree with @BertieBotts that a lot of it is social context. I grew up in the 70s/80s when smacking was still quite common, and I was smacked a few times but literally could count them on one hand and never hard enough to injure. I always understood why I'd been smacked and it was always because I'd broken some well-established rule. Most of my friends were raised in the same way. Seeing my father hit my mother was way more traumatic than the odd handful of times I was smacked by either of them, because of how frightened I was for her when it happened and because of how out of control the adults around me seemed to be. I have a lot of unresolved issues stemming from my childhood but being smacked genuinely just doesn't feature.

Having said that, I think it's a crude and primitive way of disciplining a child and it has genuinely never occurred to me to hit my own child, even if I've been right at the end of my tether.

That's like asking is kicking or punching better? It's not a competition- abuse is abuse

Agree that all types are harmful

I remember my dad smacking me a few times in anger when he lost his temper which I thought was pret try bad.
but then when I was a teenager I helped out a (Christian) family who had 3yo twins. I remember the mum punishing them by hitting them with a wooden spoon, and she did it calmly and said things like I love you but that behaviour is not acceptable I’m going to smack you with the spoon or something, and I actually found it more chilling that it was calm and controlled somehow.

I do think it's helpful that it's been made taboo, because it helps shift the window of what is acceptable and what is not. Even though yes, there was definitely a hangover period where smacking itself was not acceptable but people still clung to the idea of "bad behaviour must be punished with something they really won't like" or wanted a discipline system where they could exactly replace the threat of a smack with the threat of something else with the same effect, I do think that has mostly gone now and more often now you see people using positive parenting, which relies much more on things like encouragement, modelling, praise, clear expectations, connection/relationship, and only uses very mild punishment as a last resort.

But things I remember seeing/noticing which followed this pattern:

Dev on Corrie ( sorry) threatening his twins with the exact wording "Do you want a screen ban?"

A radio talk show host proudly proclaiming that he'd found a way to "control" his daughters without having to smack them in public - he said he'd kneel down next to them, pinch the skin just inside the corner of their elbow and tell them off quietly. To everyone else it looked like he was having a calm quiet word. I thought this was horrible.

About 5-7 years ago you'd constantly see threads on MN asking "What punishment for this behaviour" "How can I punish this behaviour?" and you'd get really long threads discussing the merits of one punishment over another! It was totally bizarre - you'd have a lone voice saying "I don't think punishment is very helpful..." now the whole thread would be about not punishing and other approaches with the occasional lone voice saying "people are too soft nowadays!"

@BertieBotts that radio presenter example is horrendous!

And I think the "replace the threat of being hit with something else and expect it to work the same" is still unfortunately common in schools.

It is awful isn't it? I remember being really upset by it! DS1 was about 2 at the time and he's a teenager now. I can't believe that he felt confident enough that it would be widely accepted for him to say it on the radio!

I would get the odd slap, have no qualms about my upbringing & great relationship with parents. Have friends who were never hit but had really toxic things said to them or parents who were just disinterested. I feel lucky.

I was grounded once & missed a concert. Honestly I was devastated & have never forgotten it. Would have traded that for hundreds if slaps!