Is this colic or is something very wrong?

[Sprinklerainbows]

Sooo… second baby, 5 weeks old, a DREAM for the first 2 weeks (some feeding and poo issues… I’ll come back to this), week 3 screaming whenever awake essentially. Much worse in the evening pretty much constant between 6-10/11pm.

she’s a breastfed baby but will scream on the boob, her latch deffo isn’t perfect (clicking when feeding) I hear her gulp air, and she chokes on the strong let down. It’s pretty traumatic she just is inconsolable on the boob. So I started pumping and giving her a bottle, seems to have helped somewhat but will still come off the bottle and cry.

she has always pooed every 3-4 days after the first week. She farts CONSTANTLY and looks like she’s trying to poo but only tiny stains on the nappy. She does occasionally have extreme blowouts where there’s just PILES of poo. Some is even slightly firmer, as if it’s been in there a while. most days she seems in pain and will bring her knees up and tense (while crying I will add 🤣)

the health visitor was completely unhelpful as I expected and said it’s all perfectly normal… but I did arrange for myself to be seen at the breastfeeding clinic.

so does this sound like colic? or is something actually wrong? I don’t know if I should be pushing for more help etc!

Colic is unexplained crying - it sounds more like there is a physical issue for sure. Best of luck!

(By which I mean cmpa or something, not anything more sinister! )

@Moonshine160 oh no! I’m so worried about this. I’ll definitely see a lactation consultant if the feeding clinic is no good!

@pinkunicorns54 so she’s not been loosing weight at all! Actually the opposite! Which is the weird thing… however I have a massive over oversupply which I think might over compensate…

Sometimes they can be really gassy on oversupply and get all that foremilk which can irritate their gut. I know they say foremilk / hindmilk isn't a thing but I have definitely seen it and when you get on top of it, baby is much more settled. I think it's a lactose overload or something, I will try and find some info on it

www.verywellfamily.com/foremilk-431991#:~:text=Too%20much%20foremilk%20is%20also,that%20your%20baby%20has%20colic.

www.laleche.org.uk/too-much-milk-and-oversupply/

@sureigot20
Her weight gains been great… but again I have a huge oversupply which I think has helped with that. And even though she’s struggled to latch she’ll feed 20+ times a day

With the poo, it just doesn’t seem right, the day she does eventually poo is always a difficult day. She’ll spend the entire day pushing and straining until it finally happens… my son used to poo after most feeds at this age

we’ve only been doing the bottle for 2 days but I did watch a video on pace feeding and I’m hoping I’m doing it correctly…

oh bless you, it’s just so so hard. My son became so unwell with his cmpa we were actually admitted to hospital for a week. Just awful! I really hope we can find out with her if it is so it doesn’t get to that stage

thank you for your help!

llli.org/breastfeeding-info/foremilk-and-hindmilk/

My son had tongue tie and was lucky it was spotted soon as he came out at birth

Update from feeding app. She said it’s a forceful letdown situation. I’m not 100% convinced because I’ve exclusively pumped for 4 days now and it’s really made no difference to her general mood while awake day/eve/night

she said no tongue tie just a shallow latch

I feel more depressed than before the app. She is the most miserable baby I’ve ever met 😞 I just hoped there was a fix but looks like it’s not going to happen

Hi @Sprinklerainbows who was it that your appointment was with? Was it a lactation consultant or just some sort of feeding support? Did they check thoroughly for tongue tie? When I had this checked they had to swaddle baby to keep them still and do a thorough inspection underneath the tongue. She found a posterior tongue tie when everyone else id seen said there was no tongue tie, just a shallow latch. Ties aren’t always easy to see by simply looking.

@Sprinklerainbows
How much is she having per feed and what is her weight gain like? How fast after birth was she back to birth weight??

@Moonshine160 it was an ‘infant feeding coordinator’ via my NHS trust. I’m not entirely sure what her title means though

she did feel around her mouth with her finger but baby was fast asleep and wasn’t ‘playing ball’ apparently.

im just so desperate at this point because I want to help her and can’t! But then I’m like was I lucky with my first baby that he didn’t cry that much or is it actually not normal for a baby to cry unless they are asleep…

@AFingerofFudge her weight gains actually been good… which is great but then we just seem to be dismissed for that reason alone.
She only lost 1% on day 5. She’s not been weighed in nearly 3 weeks however so not sure if that’s changed since her feedings gown down hill

Another vote for probiotics

@Sprinklerainbows can I be controversial and offer the possibility of over-feeding?
I do have experience but don't want to out myself - my day to day job involves feeding support.
To be only 1% below birth weight on day 5 is fantastic, but in my experience sometimes babies to struggle to cope with volumes of food. A bit like some of us could easily tuck away a large roast dinner every day but some people just wouldn't manage it.
Have you tried feeding less volume at each feed? Also you could weigh her again at a Health Visitor clinic in your area?
I rarely suggest to parents that their baby is struggling to cope with amounts but it does happen.

@AFingerofFudge weirdly she doesn’t actually feed much! In the first week I regularly was having to wake her after 4 hours to feed! It’s so odd.

since exclusively pumping it’s interesting to see the amount she’s been consuming and she doesn’t take more than 2oz a feed which I don’t actually think is as much as she ‘should’ take?!

id say she feeds 8x in a 24 hour period is it’s usually around 2oz a feed?

Did the feeding coordinator actually see baby feed? We had an appointment for tongue tie and reflux issues, and it was something like a 30-40 minute appointment, very thorough, watching DD2 feed, tweaking positions to see if it helped, lots of questions about how often/how long she fed, plus feeling the tongue-tie. Could you see an independent tongue tie person? I think there are quite a few about.

It all sounds quite similar to DD2 – she has a posterior tongue tie (spotted by a midwife at a couple of days old), which led to a clicky latch and sometimes slipping off the nipple, although I was never sore with it. In her case, the tongue-tie surgeon felt the thickness and placement of the tie together with the range of motion she had meant it was riskier to clip it than to leave it and that what she needed was better medication for her reflux. The clicking and slipping stopped as she got bigger, and she's had no trouble weaning onto solids, so thus far, I'd say the surgeon was correct. (Too early to say about speech sounds.)

Have you tried cutting dairy and soya? DD2 seemed to have 'simple' reflux related to the muscle at the top of her stomach, but yours does sound like it might be CMPA.

@skkyelark hi thanks for your message. So she did watch her feed and agreed she was clicking/slipping off like you said however she said it’s because of the fast let down. But I’m not in agreement simply because she clicks on the bottle too! Also she struggles to latch straight away/ even if I pump off some milk first etc.

I think she has a posterior tongue tie. I feel like I can see the tension myself even!

I think I’m going to pay for a lactation consultant. I’m also seeing my HV on Thursday who is better than most and will ask about CMPA etc!

Def get a second/third opinion on the tongue tie. One of my babies had it and what you describe is so like what we experienced. She was seen by several “experts” who all missed the tongue tie. Once it was properly found and sorted, the feeding issues and windy tummy issues were completely resolved.

Have you tried Gripe Water? It used to be good when mine were babies. Resort to bottle feeding her with formula?

@HarrietStyles yes I think I will! Shame it’s so expensive!!! I was hoping it was a TT because so many people say it’s instant relief for them

@IknowYouButIdontLikeYou yes tried that I can’t say I’ve noticed much of a difference (one bottle down)
I’ve done the odd formula feed but again I haven’t noticed that help either

Since you’ve a family history of CMPA and go DF and see if her symptoms improve .

My two sons have CMPA but had slightly different symptoms .

Had baby been checked for lip / tongue tie ? X

@ScoobyBooby yes I think I’ll try that next. I didn’t want to try too many things at once incase we didn’t know what actually was helping/not helping

baby was checked for tongue tie but I want a second opinion x

Another update: (I hope this helps someone in the same position one day)

health visitor came today (she’s actually great, I really trust and like her)

she checked tongue tie again, she doesn’t think she does have one. And showed and explained to me why not. However she agrees her latch isn’t great and thinks it probably is due my original fast letdown, and now that’s how she’s adapted to it. Hard habit to change but she thinks naturally her latch will improve

she was concerned about the poo. She thinks the wind, crying, constipation, the sewage farts, the range of textures in her poo as well as my son having CMPA all suggests she does too. She’s recommended I cut dairy out as of today and she’s going to come back in 2 weeks and see if there’s been an improvement- if yes then she’ll do a dietician referral, if no then she said we may need a paeds referral. All very positive in my opinion and I really am hoping that cutting the dairy will improve the horrible symptoms she’s had.