I'm honestly lost at what to do with my son

[mrsjackbauer87]

I've got three boys, 11, 9 and 6. The 11yo has autism and absolutely hates the 9yo. He's horrible and can lash out at him, I just don't know how to deal with it anymore. He loves the youngest but the middle and youngest are very close and because of DS1's behaviour towards DS2, he ends up getting excluded.

I've tried talking to DS1 to find out what his issue is with DS2 but I don't get anywhere. They are polar opposites in a lot of ways (DS1 is very academic and bookish, DS2 is very sporty), I don't know if some of it is jealousy as DS2 is very popular and outgoing whereas DS1 really struggles socially. If I mention DS2 to him, he just gets this look of disgust.

Ds1 has a few stresses at the moment, y6 so off to high school next year, a school project which he is excited about but I think is playing on his mind and he has ramped up his horrible bullying towards DS2. This evening they had some sort of words and DS1 lashed out with the pen he was holding and stabbed DS2's arm.

I always punish violence (and the verbal bullying) but it's just getting worse. I feel like DS1 is constantly being sent to his room which compounds his feelings of being left out. On the one hand I need to protect DS2, and this is my priority as he hasn't (usually) done anything wrong. On the other hand I feel with every punishment I'm pushing DS1 out of the family, DS3 has started asking me just to keep him in his room so he doesn't get a chance to do anything to DS2.

When DS1 gets an idea in his head he can't be persuaded otherwise, so he's decided he doesn't like his brother and nothing will change his mind. It's so difficult as the rare times he doesn't act like a bully and him and DS2 get on and it's so good for him. Ds2 could help him so much socially.

Any ideas about how I can maybe build a happier relationship between them? Or just a calmer one? I'm not looking for consequences, before anyone jumps in, I have zero tolerance for any violence and I am on it with any verbal bullying. I'd like some suggestions on how to stop it happening in the first place though.

There's some things that just can't be tolerated and your Ds1's behaviour to ds2 is this. Autism doesn't excuse it. Talk to ds1, ask him what he suggests, because this isn't benefitting him and you're not prepared to allow it to continue?

Yup, DS1 needs to understand this is not ok, no matter how he feels.

He’s excluding himself because of his behaviour. If he is able to understand this then perhaps he’ll stop it. It’s a really important lesson to learn for outside the family too. People won’t want to be friends with him if he behaves this way.

Sounds really hard though, hope things improve.

@SpringOn I know he's excluding himself, I've always made it really clear to him if he does anything to DS2 he'll be the one who gets removed from the situation, its just hard because he's naturally excluded in other ways because of his lack of social skills. He does have friends, just not strong relationships.

He's knows it's not OK and always apologises but it's like DS2 is his fall back to bully if things aren't going his way. He's so restrained with others, DS3 once broke something of his which he loved and while he was gutted, he acted in such an understanding way. If DS2 had of broken it he would have just gone for him.

@Oblomov23 I've never used his autism as an excuse, he has absolutely no issues at school in terms of lashing out, or with anyone else. He is actually very mature and kind to everyone apart from DS2. He's a helper for the y1 class and gets glowing feedback regarding his nature. It's like he just looks at DS2 and the red mist descends.

Does your council have a family support service you can go to for advice? Or is there a local charity who had them?

@Thisshallneverpass to be honest I don't know. I'll have a look into it this week.

Hi,

I work in a school for young people with ASD. Firstly, I would 100% look at your local authorities local offer. I'm assuming your son has an EHCP and there is lots of support out there if you know where to look. Don't be afraid to accept help....ASD is not easy!

Secondly, it might be helpful to spend some time breaking down the situation to your son. Really break it down to small, simple steps. Sometimes people with ASD can't see the consequences of their actions without it being explained to them.

Also, does he have any hobbies or a way or managing his stresses/anxities before they bubble over and he targets your other son? Lots of young people with ASD are able to mask their emotions in school but really struggle at home. Also a club would keep him out the house, less time to argue.

Lastly, your doing a great job I'm sure!

Do you have the space to give DS2 a fun space where he is safe, a dec'd out shed etc. The transition to secondary school is often really hard for those with ASD and behavior is likely to spiral, a safe space for the other 2 is DS1 starts to get older and stronger is important.

Building the relationship wise maybe get DS 1 to say or write down things he does like about Ds2 or times DS2 was kind to DS1, put them in a jar to look at when the tension starts to rise to focus on the good times.

Are DS2 and 3 members of young carers? It may do them good being around other siblings of children with disabilitys

@BuzzieBo thanks for the detailed answer. He doesn't actually have an echp, he's never needed any support or accommodations at school. He definitely has autism but he's more on the aspergers side (although I know that's not used anymore). I'll contact the council and see what we can access though. To be honest I'm wondering if it'll be easier and quicker to just engage a private therapist if that's what the council are likely to suggest?

I don't think it's just managing his stresses. Sometimes he's in a great mood and just looks at DS2 and it's like a wave of hate comes over him. He definitely takes a bad day out on DS2 but it's more than that.

No real ideas but just to say I’m sorry OP must be so horrible to see that between your kids and make life so difficult. Poor DC2 as a middle child life’s already tough having your older brother hate you must be awful.

We had almost the exact scenario - 3 boys, eldest autistic, middle boy polar opposite. Both got on ok with ds 3.

In our case it was DS2 winding up DS1 more often, and DS1 claiming to hate DS2 etc.

The first thing we did was give each boy his own space, with very strict rules that the spaces were private, personal and time away from each other. Our eldest doesn't mind being alone anyway so having a sanctuary helped. We pointed out that they didn't have to be best mates but they had to leave each other alone, and always reminded them that whilst they didn't like each other, deep down they loved each other.

We stressed the different but equal nature of each boy's skills. DS 1 was great at maths and science. DS2 was creative and artistic. Neither was "cleverer" or "more successful". Each had their own strengths.

They actually went to different secondary schools which helped a lot to reduce the perceived competition between them and enabled each to be viewed as himself rather than X's brother. Then when DS3 went to same school as DS1 it was fine because they got along anyway.

They are now 19 and 21 and get on ok to well most of the time, though they would not stay in touch as adults I doubt without DS3 acting as the glue that they each have in common. They haven't had a proper row in 2 or 3 years, and the last one before that was probably when DS1 was about 15. They have just grown up a bit.

Yes, we have plenty of space for each of them, they all have their own rooms and a couple of living spaces.

The main flash points are probably meal times. If DS2 isn't there DS1 is absolutely fine, but if DS2 is there he'll make sure he's sitting as far away as he can get. Weirdly he is fine if we're eating out but say breakfast times, if I put their bowls next to each other on the table DS1 grabs his and moves as far away as possible. I can, and do try and stagger their meals but I feel like that's pushing DS1 out.

"The main flash points are probably meal times. If DS2 isn't there DS1 is absolutely fine, but if DS2 is there he'll make sure he's sitting as far away as he can get. Weirdly he is fine if we're eating out but say breakfast times, if I put their bowls next to each other on the table DS1 grabs his and moves as far away as possible. I can, and do try and stagger their meals but I feel like that's pushing DS1 out."

Why wouldn't you just allocate far away spaces? That's what we did. On our 6 seater table DS 1 sat at top left and DS2 at the foot of the table, so physically far away and out of sight lines. I wouldn't call that bullying, I would say DS1 is trying to manage a flashpoint by moving away physically.

As he's autistic he may find DS2 intolerable in sensory terms at mealtimes - maybe he doesn't sit still, maybe he clatters his cutlery or scrapes the plate, maybe he burps and thinks it's funny....so DS1 doesn't want to expose himself to that. Isn't that fair enough?

"Are DS2 and 3 members of young carers? It may do them good being around other siblings of children with disabilitys"

This makes me really uncomfortable for reasons I can't adequately explain. I would certainly not have wanted that sort of dynamic for my boys.

@Lumberingfool we do allow them to sit far apart, often one at the far end of the island and one at the table but they end up together at some point when one has to walk past the other. It is definitely a sensory thing (I get it, I have some sensory issues and some noises give me the same rage DS1 has) but he seems to get that rage just from looking at DS2.

I didn't mean DS1 moving away was a bullying behavior, I've always praised him him recognising his triggers, I was more just trying to convey the disgust he has, even having his bowl next to DS2 for a second while I'm pouring milk (they do actually usually make their own breakfast, just using it as an example).

We have a similar problem and I find it very distressing for the 'hated' younger sibling, who is really incredibly patient and kind and puts up with a great deal. Car journeys are the worst for us but meal times are pretty bad too. I try and give them separate breakfasts (so they each have my undivided attention) but in the evening DC1 is told to take their food away and sit somewhere else if they can't be civil.

@Grimbelina sorry to hear you have a similar issue. Distressing is a good word. It's hard when DS2 is hurt but then still forgives and forgets. He's actually much stronger than DS1 and I wonder if at some point he'll snap and retaliate and that might make DS1 think more. Obviously I would prefer to nip it in the bud before I gets to that point.

DS1 has an awards show this week and I know DS2 will be there, cheering for him. I do think if things don't change he will give up on him and DS1 will regret it.