4yo has a scary, violent side. Struggling.

[mumworriedalways]

My 4 year old is so difficult to parent, he can be such a loving child and does get very big emotions and struggles with them sometimes, he has friends, does well in his pre-school, is bright and friendly

But his temper is concerning, sometimes in a screaming shouting lashing out way but sometimes it's just like someone flicks a switch and he gets this look in his eyes and he'll start scratching me, saying he's going to bite me or pull my hair, he'll spit at me. There isn't a day that goes by where he doesn't scratch, hit, bite or spit atleast once. He wasn't doing it in pre-school but he has now started again and in the past couple of weeks has bitten 4 children.

He knows it's wrong, he cries afterwards and says sorry, he gets immediate consequences, he understands them. But he carries on. It does start to affect everything my husband and I both get so upset being hurt daily.

Of course I know at just weeks away from being 4 there's probably something not quite right, but surely if he was autistic there would be more going on? Like the bigger picture? It's horrible when he turns and goes all nasty and just wants to hurt and say horrible things to us but the other side to him is so different, can be sweet, can share nicely, is so bright etc it's hard. I've never sought help because when he's fine he's fine.

Just had a horrible morning where again it was like someone flicked a switch, he gets this like elated look in his eyes and laughs whilst spitting in my face, threatening to bite me and gouging my arms. He's gone to pre-school now and I'm sat here wanting to cry waiting for the inevitable phone call that he's hurt someone else today. I just give up.

I will add this violence has gone on for a long time, well over a year, with periods of it easing off and periods of it being worse. Clearly what I'm doing, trying to remove myself and support him through the feelings, isn't working as it's still going on years down the line.

I'm so sorry. I would make a GP appointment.

I've phoned and booked an appointment to speak to the GP on Monday. I just keep thinking he's growing out of it and then he doesn't. He's improved - he calms down quicker now, much much quicker, he can name his feelings afterwards, he shows restraint at times and catches himself before he explodes. But it is still ongoing and it can't be right can it

That must be very worrying for you. If I were you, I would make a doctor's appointment and talk to them while he's not with you.

What sanctions do you put in place? Four is old for this kind of behaviour.

We've tried everything. Sticker charts, time out, naughty steps but most things would aggravate him more. We've done a lot of work on naming our feelings, redirection and sort of holding him until he calms down and stops hurting and kind of flops into a hug where he'll cry his eyes out then calm down and talk about what his big feeling was. This does work and hes calming down quicker, outbursts that used to last over an hour now last minutes, but he is still hurting us. He's always told that it's ok to have big feelings, but it's not ok to hurt, we remove ourselves but sometimes he gets there before we get the chance and hurts us and it's just constant. He should of got it by now, it shoul of sunk in after this long.

Yes, good to go to GP.
Your son could be in pain or have a chronic health condition that means he sleeps poorly etc. or is affected by some foods, has Diabetes, poor eye sight or hearing or an allergy.
It is really sensible to have him thoroughly checked out.

If a pet dog is being violent often it is due to a health condition - that is why I thought of this.

Speak to the Senco or Manager at the Preschool. Key person may have observed any triggers or patterns to his behaviour.
Doesn’t sound like he has any spoken communication difficulties. Is his comprehension good?
Preschool should be able to support you and might contact a local agency or professional to observe in the setting and advise re strategies and consistent language to use when unwanted behaviour occurs.
Hang on in there asking for help and advice is a positive step and things should start to improve.

The school said that he is too young to really say if he has any additional needs but that he is a bright boy, social, has friends, and that they've noticed him improving in his ability to share, take turns etc this year as they'd expect. He had no incidents at school at all in 12 months until this recent spate of biting. However he has always been difficult at home, a lovely boy with a difficult temper. He just can't seem to control himself, it's like this switch in him and he's no longer himself he's just determined to hurt hurt hurt. Then he kind of snaps out of its and cries his eyes out. Does that sound like autism? I don't have any experience of it at all.

He’s not too young to be observed or assessed at all.
Children can behave differently at home and in the setting. Is he starting Reception in September? Have there been any visits or discussions about this at all? Could he be anxious about it?
Biting is a difficult one as there are chewy tubes and bracelets you can buy and redirect him but often if a child has a meltdown they may just bite the nearest person or child.
If you are concerned about autism there will be a recognised diagnosis pathway in place in your local authority/NHS trust. You can discuss with your GP or preschool staff.

His pre-school class is in the same school he will go to primary and in the same building as the reception kids so for all he knows he's already in school and will just go into the different classroom come September, he will be with the same kids he's in now in the nursery class so hopefully the transition won't be too full on. He was (is?) doing really well in the school and is happy there, it's just this recent spate of biting. He has bitten, 4 times over a few weeks which seems to have triggered this. It's like he knew not to do it at school until it was done to him and now thinks he can too. It's difficult.

He was bitten 4 times, as in he was the victim, sorry, which now seems to of taught him that it's ok to bite at school.

The biggest ongoing issues have been at home.

Seeing your GP is sensible, but if it helps OP, my Godson was a terrible biter at three. He was almost banned from his nursery, He bit his parents, other children, me.
His Mum at the end of her tether told him she would not be anywhere near him if he bit her, and that people would start biting him back. He stopped the biting. He is a wonderful twenty something man now, there were no further issues.
I had a very explosive three/four year old who had huge meltdowns. As a teenager she is very cheerful and great company, no teenage strops. Sometimes it really is just a stage, then they grow up and move beyond it.

Hey mumworriedalways, let me start by saying, I hear ya! I've just spent an hour on the phone to my mum talking about our 4 yo boy. I feel like we've tried every bloomin' parenting style / technique out there. And like you, we get periods of calm where things seem to be improving, and then it feels like we're back to square one again. He's rude and shouts, is physical and spits, hits and kicks out at us when we tell him to do anything. And this is on a daily basis. But, like your LO, he can also be so kind and caring and is a very sensitive little boy.
One interesting thing that has helped me understand him at this time is learning that boys around this age have more testosterone coursing through their tiny bodies than a teenage boy - that's an astronomical amount. Think about how you have felt when hormonal in the past and how hard it is to contain yourself and keep your emotions in check. It's so hard. It sounds to me like your little guy is maybe going through a bit of a hormonal spike and development growth spurt at the mo. He's at the right age for it.
In our house, the key is not rising to it and disengaging with the bad behaviour. A friend described it to me as putting on your bouncer face - "sorry mate, I can't let you in" kind of attitude. Don't bring your own emotions into it. Model calm and patient behaviours. It takes so so much self discipline (I mean, a f*CK load), especially when someone is literally spitting in your face, but the more you do it, the easier it becomes (it's like training a muscle!) And it might seem cruel, but when children are in that state, they can't hear you and don't want to listen. Any engagement at times like these tends to escalate things, so you're far better off letting them calm down and regulate, giving them a hug and then chatting to them about the behaviour.
It's exhausting and it's so important to look after yourself as well. I've always found breathing exercises helpful to regulate myself and bring myself back to earth in these situations.
I'm by no means any sort of an expert, but I'm not sure you need to worry about autism. It sounds to me like fairly normal, boisterous boy behaviour. Have you tried physical outlets to release some of the energy? Again, it's exhausting, but a much nicer way of releasing all that built up tension in him than biting and hitting.
At the end of the day, you're his mum, and you'll know in your gut if you need a diagnosis for anything.
Sending you so much strength 💪 you've got this, mama!! ❤️

Some advice and ideas here including books and the chewy tubes.
I have no connection to that Local Authority but some of the info might help

https://localoffer.northlincs.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Biting-Leaflet-a.pdf

Great advice re calm approach Themakedomama as you say not easy

Ex Senco secondary here - one thing I’ve picked up on is that in the past your son doesn’t maintain an even profile meaning he was well behaved at school and not at home. This has now overspilled from home setting to school. This is how I’d explain to your gp he can’t maintain an even profile. Speak to your gp as I feel he needs support that is ‘additional to (the other children) and different from’ this is the essence of Sen and for a child to be intelligent is not unusual. If gp states that they should see educational psychologist be aware that the school probably has a service level agreement of not many hours. I n this case keep on at the Senco/ Alnco xxx good luck with the gp I’m hopeful for the best outcome xx

Hi I know this is an old thread but any update on your son op. It sounds exactly like my son

My lovely DS was like this. He has been diagnosed as autistic as a young teen

How long did the violence last with your son? I just feel like it has been going on for a long time now with my son and it does seem like it is only getting worse

We've definitely made a world of progress. I can count the amount of times he's hit us on one hand over the last couple of months and he hasn't bitten, scratched or spat at all in even longer. He's still having more than his fair share of tantrums and will occasionally hit out at us but not every time. He's calming down quicker and you can get through to him now. We've had no incidents in school since he went up a year in September. Fingers crossed it continues.

I'm not saying he's autistic, but children with autism and adhd don't do well with star charts and with toys taken away etc.

Well done for improving his behaviour, you're obviously doing something right.