What am I doing wrong? Toddler routine!

[Meme1313]

So I have DC1 (18 months) and DC2 (3 months). I feel like I'm being cheated. DC1 wakes up at 7am and somehow sleeps at 10pm. He has always been an awful sleeper but also seems quite happy without the sleep! He does get overtired but this isn't often considering he doesn't get so much sleep. I keep seeing routines where baby wakes at 7am and sleeps at 7pm. I am jealous. What am I doing wrong, here is my routine:

7am wake up
8am breakfast/bath
9.00 ready for the day, some cleaning together.
10-2 toddler class/shopping/walk/gardening
1-2.00 - lunch, sometimes this is on the go
3.00 nap
4.30ish wake up
5.00 I cook and DP comes home
6.00 we all eat
7.00 we go out for the evening/watch TV/go crazy with the kids
9.00 in bed, (PJ's, milk, teeth, books)
10.00 asleep

Originally we didn't used to go out in the evening but DS1 never slept when we started his bed time routine at 7pm so I gave up and decided to go out.

His first nap is also way later than I want it to be but I always offer it earlier and he just refuses.

I'm thinking maybe I should do bath time before bed. I usually do a bath in the morning but might not now. Not sure. Part of me just thinks he doesn't need the sleep. He never slept much as a baby and in some ways this is an improvement. Maybe he is dropping his nap?

I'd say his naps too late,maybe try doing it earlier in the day.

Most kids that age don't sleep 7-7. A lot of kids need between 9-12 hours overnight with 19 hours being normal.
The nap is probably quite late in the day, that will definitely push bedtime later.

The main question is, is the later bedtime a problem for you?

If it is then try moving the nap forward or capping the nap. It can take a little while for a new routine to take effect so don't panic if nap tweaks don't change later bedtime/early morning straight away.

If it isn't then continue and don't worry about it.
My DD is 22 months and she has always had a later bedtime, it works for us so we don't change it. We don't care if she naps later in the day cause we don't mind her being up later with us.

Yep nap them at 12, lunch afterwards so a nice long time to get tired again before bedtime.

7am wake up
8am breakfast/bath
9.00 ready for the day, some cleaning together. it's taking you too long to get going with the day. If you start this bit earlier they might nap earlier?

3 pm is far too late of a nap.

7.00 we go out for the evening/watch TV/go crazy with the kids don't make this bit as exciting or as long try stopping at 8?

Plus in the time before bedtime try to wind down. Maybe bath as PP says, but whatever maybe reading and cuddles than screens or going out. Those will gee DC1 up whereas you want to be chilling them out.

Any advice on how to get him to nap earlier? ... Baths before first nap help a little, he might go down at 2.30 then.

Sometimes I like that he sleeps late so we can go out in the evening but ATM with DS2 I really don't have the energy to entertain him when I'm waking at 5am.

Yes waking up from nap at 4.30 will definitely push bed time very late. Having said that loads of toddlers don't sleep 7-7.
I know you said he refuses to nap earlier than 3 but maybe have lunch at 12 then take him out for a drive/walk in the pushchair and see if you can get him to sleep that way?

How do you get him down for a nap?

If I want my DD to nap earlier, if I think she's tired and she's just refusing, then I go out in the car. It always works to get her to fall asleep.

Kids who go to bed at 7pm probably don't have an afternoon nap at 3pm so I suppose that might be your solution. DS at that age napped from 1130 / 12pm till 2pm, then had late lunch and a whole afternoon of activities, bath at 7 / 7.30pm sleep by 8.30pm, waking up at 7ish the next morning, often closer to 8am

It's a bit hard for him to have car naps with the 3 month old as DS2 mostly cries and wakes him up.

I think a lot of the routine has shifted since DS2 was born. Prior to him being born I could give him the time to wind down for a nap/bed time but right now I can't spend so much time with him.

Does he need the nap at all? Some kids drop it that early.

Yes this is good advice. I think I need to try bringing his nap earlier slowly. Or perhaps I just need to accept a later bed time! I'll try and tweak the first nap though. I'm just about surviving with 2 under 2 and I think maybe I just need to do what I can right now.

I think I would try-
wake up
breakfast
get ready
go out for a long ass walk/shopping
come home and do lunch
put him down wherever he goes to nap (it will probably be hell for the first week but you’ll benefit in the long run)
do whatever until tea time
bath at 7/7:30
Obviously it could completely not work, or you could find things in between that do work and adjust, I have 6 and youngest are 7 months and 2 years so I’ll be cheering you on from the sidelines!!

I think this is a good point. My instinct says he doesn't need it if he got more bed time hours. I'll try tweak his nap and if that doesn't work I'll drop the nap.

The nap is way too late. Ditto others - get him down for 12pm/12.30 and wake up by 2/2.30. Then bedtime 7-8 and wake up 7am latest. I wouldn't be doing anything exciting after tea, that's wind down to Bathtime and bedtime. In terms of getting him down for nap, I'd do an early lunch and then mini bedtime routine eg story in room, cup of milk, whatever.

I'd disagree with pp - lots of babies at 18 months sleep 10-12 hours overnight and 2 hours or so in the daytime. There sleep need at that age is 12-14 hours still.

That naps seems very late. At that age I would wake mine up at 3pm at the latest otherwise he would go to bed too late. Also I don't know many babies that sleep 7-7.

6 and then 2 under 2! That is amazing! My cousin's all have 5/6 kids and I think they are crazy but in the best way possible. Thanks for cheering me on! XxX

Does he sleep through from 10pm - 7am? If so, don't feel too jealous. There are plenty of us who's toddlers (and older!) Still wake a couple times a night or more...

But I'd agree with the others - nap is way too late for a 7 or 8pm bedtime. Being asleep after 2pm is firmly in danger nap territory for most toddlers I know.

Well, sounds like he's over tired to me...

I'd be bringing bedtime and naps back by 30 minutes every couple of days tbh. Or 15 if it helps.

After dinner is chill time, no going crazy. Just quiet play, baths, reading, puzzles etc. Consistent bedtime routine that's short and sweet.

Eg. Dinner, quiet play and reading up for a bath, into PJs, brush teeth, into bed 2 x short stories, lights out.

I had a 3 month old and a just turned 2 year old. It's tricky, and you do feel like you're splitting yourself down the middle sometimes.

I had a hard rule with both kids when they got onto one nap a day, no sleeping past 3pm, otherwise they would not go to bed at night. That meant if they went down at 2, they only got an hour and they were cranky in the afternoon sometimes. But it worked for us in terms of getting them to bed in good time.

My 14 month daughter sleeps 12 hours a night and most of the time has with the odd nights here and there refusing sleep or up early/down late. She has one nap now and that happened around 11 months as she was wanting to stay up/wide awake or would wake in the night ready to play. We worked out, unless ill, not to let her sleep past 3pm as it takes her a minimum of 5 hours to be exhausted and ready for bed. Based on this her nap is usually around 12.30pm for 40-60 mins. So maybe try our rule of no napping past a certain time and see how you get on.
Hope this helps.

By going crazy I meant... I am going crazy having to deal with them both! Haha. The thing is he seems really happy so I don't know if he is overtired. I've seen him overtired and he's more grumpy and ratty. Who knows... I'll just try these suggestions and see. It's probably perfectly normal and maybe I'm overthinking it all.

I am with you on the 2 under 2. It is very hard.
Just do what works for now as it will get better.
My DD is 22 months and DS is 5 months.
It is exhausting.
DS spent a lot of time in a carrier in the earlier months and he's so much better in the car now.
I still take them out in the car because I can't deal with trying to get both of them to nap at the same time but they do nap in the car together so that helps.