This surely can't be the norm? (Sleep related)

[alexaishername]

DC is 12 months, has never slept through. A good night is 4-5 resettles, a bad is 15+. We cosleep and EBF (still BF to sleep). But DC does things I don't hear about other children the same age doing - not necessarily one in isolation, but a combination of any/all these things... it's making me wonder if there's a sleep condition occurring:

• Will most nights, within the first hour or so, suddenly start screaming and flailing limbs out of no where. Appears to be sometimes triggered by the light from my phone even though it's on the lowest setting and is dimmed further by an app, and even if not facing DC.

• Will suddenly sit up and interact (point and verbalise towards something, or grabs the nearest object) before very quickly falling back asleep. Can happen during both naps and at night.

• Is disturbed enough to need resettling by their own fidgeting/need to pass wind (hence why so many resettles are needed).

• Will act very confused/scared if you touch/sing/whisper to/pick up/cuddle when trying to resettle, the tiniest thing will result in screaming out of no where.

I'm sure there's more but I'm half asleep having been awoken by one of these episodes so I'm probably forgetting to mention other quirks.

DS had self night weaned by that age, but yes, had at various points done all of the above.
He didn't sleep through for several years (well, actually, I'm not sure he sleeps through now, but he doesn't need parental input when he wakes - he's at secondary). About 18 months, I could pretty much guatentee 4 straight hours from him, which was my magic number to feel vaguely human.

The confusion/screaming on trying to resettle: are you sure he's not still asleep at this point? So is being woken by you resetting him?

Mine slept this badly. I know what you mean about going in and out of their room all night, it's clear it's not working as it is either.

From your OP, it sounds as if you are staying in the room with him all evening, playing on your phone (given you day is phone light that wakes him). He can stay in your bed without you lying next to him - hi have an evening downstairs and listen on the monitor. He might sleep better? It means you can pause for a moment, maybe have a wee before going in, which gives him a short opportunity to settle back down.

Or join the hoardes of half co-sleepers, where they start off in their own bed, and when they wake you bring them in (perhaps after trying to resettle them in their own bed if it's still evening rather than night. Eventually many get to the stage (when out of the cot) where they'll just come and get in bed with you.

Lying in a dark room in silence night after night is going to be awful for your mental health and your relationship.

Sympathy. My DC used to sleep 7pm to 10pm. Wake up until 6am. Then sleep until about 7-8am. I had to get up at 6 with another child. I tried stopping breast feeding, she had her own room. Tried sleep consultant. Tried sleep training. Tried basically everything. She eventually grew out of it at just over 3 years old and is now a great sleeper. But those 3 years were hell surviving on about 2 hours sleep a night.
it doesn’t sound abnormal or unusual to me.

My son is a really light sleep, he's coming up to 3 and is getting much better now. But he can still be woken by someone coming up the stairs, coughing etc.

He mostly sleeps in his own room now, on a double floor bed and I go in on his first wake can be anything from 12-6 depending. He only has max one wake now for a few seconds so not even sure you can call it a wake !

Not all babies or adults are the same. I'm a really light sleeper as well and I also don't need lots of sleep to function have always been the same. As a baby I would do 7 hours a night much to my parents dispar. I just never needed lots of sleep. But if you are worried something more is going on go back to the GP, you know her best.

Hopefully it will get better for you soon. We use a white noise machine called Glow Dreaming .

My situation is very similar - co-sleeping, breastfeeding to sleep etc. Just wanted to say don't listen to those saying they should be on their own now. It's not them that has to get up multiple times a night. I feel rested only because I co-sleep. He sleeps so much better that way (15 months here). They are still very young. Not all children are the same either.

I recognise a few of the things you say here from my own children.
I wouldn't be concerned about the sitting up and grabbing items. Children do strange things during sleep, even on "good" nights they let out random screams and twist and turn.
However, the screaming/flailing/struggling to settle has happened to all of mine whenever they were massively over tired. The waking around an hour after going down and then unconsolable screaming and limbs going everywhere. They weren't awake so couldn't be rationally soothed. It was awful and used to make me panic something was wrong. Very much like a night terror but definitely related to poor day sleep. Obviously it starts to impact the night sleep, which then impacts day sleep, and so on. Sometimes it developmental but I wouldn't expect that to go on for more than a few weeks. If it were me I'd be assessing sleep levels before worrying it's something deeper.

Is he/she a snorer? It could be sleep apnoea.

Just to say you’re doing amazing. Absolutely nothing wrong with cosleeping. We do it too.

Also mine is three and I know it probably doesn’t feel it right now, yours is still very little. Also do they watch much tv? Could be nightmares!

I have a 12mo and I don't recognise any of those behaviours in your OP from my child, or her older siblings. It does sound unusual to me and I would get further investigations from a specialist. DC2 is still in our room, doesn't sleep through but does a stretch for 7 hours or so, sometimes will self settle back to sleep, sometimes needs a bit more settling. Was co-sleeping but moved back to her own cot a few months ago. Breastfeeds to sleep, sometimes has a feed during the night. Wakes up once or twice in the night, sometimes more but never more than 3. Gives us enough sleep time to feel rested.

Older dc was in our room until age 4 (no other bedroom) and breastfed until age 3.5, but slept through 10 hours from age 2, so don't think it's necessary to be in own room or stop breastfeeding for good sleep.

You're definitely not alone. My DD has always been quite clingy and a light sleeper. She first slept through at 6 years old and now at 11 finds it difficult to get to sleep.

Could it be night terrors starting though he does seem young for that x

Does he have any tummy symptoms? My ds used to wake up screaming in the night but we discovered he was gluten intolerant and it stopped when we removed gluten from his diet - I think he must have been in pain... Just a different perspective to think about.

I agree.

I remember reading this with my eldest too, but she was having what seemed to be night terror-type behaviour from being a very young baby! Not every night all the time as she was actually overall always been a good sleeper but she used to have it in phases for a couple of weeks then it would stop for awhile then another phase and so on. She's continued to sleep talk loads, particularly so once she was babbling well etc which continued,(even when not upset/distressed) and also began rare episodes of sleep walking from being about 4 too. I think probs all related. My son also does the night terror-style behaviour in phases too and he's 18m. He doesn't sleep talk much otherwise though only occasionally.

I was put in my own room on day 1.

I was in my 30s when my attachment disorder became apparent.

Make of that what you will.

Thank you to everyone for taking the time to comment and attempting to offer advice on how to improve our situation. Albeit well meaning, I'm not looking for a 'cure' which is why my OP didn't refer to any solutions and only focused on the sleep behaviour itself. I have already been through a point of having driven myself mad, pushing away my support network and spending hundreds and hundreds of pounds searching for something I can fix, to no avail. It was unhealthy and I've had to go through counselling to stop, so as much as I appreciate the sympathetic mum's trying to help by offering solutions; I've tried them all (aside from stopping breastfeeding which I'm not prepared to do as there's no evidence it'll work, is an irreversible decision and potentially takes away the only reliable tool I do have; plus neither of us are ready to end our journey yet), they haven't worked for us and I'm just going with the flow now

For those adament I'm the source of the disturbance; this is simply not true. DC rouses significantly more often if I'm not present for naps and in the first part of the evening before I go to bed. As I said previously, when we tried separate rooms (under the intense guise of a sleep consultant I might add), it did not result in a decrease in disturbances for DC. I can also vouch for it having spent hours awake staring at the ceiling or from watching video recordings back.

Regardless, it seems some, even if it's a minority, of you can relate to some of the unusual behaviour so I'll monitor it for now and perhaps seek further support if it becomes more extreme (in frequency or action).

Thank you. And I'm sorry @OverTheHillAndDownTotherSide , me too.

Oh right. I’m not sure what you were looking for then if it was not solutions? Because no, it’s not normal for a child of one year.

You don’t need to stop breastfeeding, but nightweaning would, in a lot of our opinions, help teach your child to self-soothe and that it’s not worth waking up, as well as sleep training to teach them to do it all in their own.

I asked if what I was describing was experienced by other similar aged children. DC isn't rousing at the end of each sleep cycle and deciding to ask for help getting back to sleep, which is why sleep training is inappropriate for our scenario. Night weaning is also not an option at present.

Hi @alexaishername I know you haven’t asked for solutions but just wanted to share our experience as it might be helpful to you. We breastfeed and co-sleep.

DS is 20 months now but until about 13/14 months I would have considered anything below 5 wakes as an exceptionally good night. Nights of hourly wakes were not at all unusual, and occasionally he would wake up upset but not to the degree you describe - although as others have suggested, what you are experiencing could be in the realms of normal.

We moved him into his own room at around 15 month, but until 18ish months he was almost always in our bed from 11pm so only did evening in his room.

Now, he makes his way to our room somewhere between 2-5am and spends the rest of the night in with us.

We went with a floor bed when we moved him to his room so it was easy to lay with him and feed to sleep. Now he is in a normal single bed which works too, ideal as he has the freedom to com to us when he wakes or I can go and sleep in with him if I prefer.

We started waking him at the same time every day, no matter what. We also capped his nap at 1hr and waited for him to show tired signs before putting him to bed, after a few days we were putting him to bed at around 8-8.30pm this was when he was seeming tired.

Capping his nap and putting him to bed a bit later is what seemed to dramatically reduce night wakes. We went from 5-8 wakes to 2-3 wakes within a week. Obviously this could have been coincidence.

We have also started giving a good quality multivitamin and omega 3, he has a good diet but I had read that vitamin deficiency can impact sleep - unsure of how true this is but thought it can’t hurt.

We also use a cream with magnesium in before bed - don’t use much, just a little foot massage but we notice he is much more fidgety and wakes more if we have skipped it.

Sorry for the long post and giving you solutions when you didn’t ask for them but these were very stress free changes for us, after lots of stressful changes that hadn’t worked, it has been nice to start worrying less about sleep but we do feel these tweaks have showed improvement.

Hope things start to improve soon, well done for keeping up with supporting your little one in they ways he needs, sleep deprivation is killer but it does get better.

@Pastaf0rbreakfast which multivits and omega 3 are you using? I would like to start using them but the choice is a bit overwhelming, and I'm never sure paying more is worth it over own brand vits.

Hi OP

DD went through a stage around 12 months where she acted like this - she also started pissing about for ages at bedtime where as before a feed would knock her out! She also would wake up frequently for the first half of the night. The bad nights it felt like every half an hour.

I remember being totally exasperated at the suggestion that she just needed to be cuddled or offered water because it wasn't like she woke up 'properly' however if she didn't immediately breastfeed for comfort she would end up waking up distraught.

Try eliminating a few things to start - do not have your phone near baby, try and lay further away from her so you are not jiggling them awake.

I would be mindful of taking the advice of people who did not cosleep/breastfeed.

Hi OP. I recognise your final point - when that has happened on a few occasions we've concluded she wasn't actually awake and it takes aaaaaages to get her to 'come round' and chill out again.

I don't really recognise your other points from my own experience (other than my daughter does appear to be more animated - sleepclimbing/talking- when we cosleep on the odd occasions).

@Heski I use better you junior multivitamin spray as I’ve found this to be the nicest tasting and easiest administration - DS loves the spray. Then also the apokra omega 3 liquid, it comes with a rubbish pipette so I just use a 1ml syringe instead and it’s easy.

We’ve tried loads and while I wouldn’t necessarily say branded is better than own brand, I do find branded tend to be better tasting/easier to give.

The ones we use now are the first ones that have been accepted by DS, these are the first ones that we’ve got to the end of the pack and purchased more, all other ones we’ve tried have been rejected by DS after 2/3 days.

Try Batelle method -
pricey but you can pay on installments over the course of a year. they support you and train you as a dyad rather than just your child. They offer Inc all support with anything sleep related until child turns six
life changing stuff for us