Grandparent Argument - AITA? (Long post warning!!)

[EmeraldGem1505]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here. I'm not really sure what I'm looking for, but I need to vent and any helpful advice would be super useful!

So last Monday my DD (toddler age) had a febrile convulsion due to a high temperature. She stopped breathing long enough to turn blue and at the time it was happening I thought we were going to lose her. It was the single most scary and traumatic thing we have ever been through as a family. Thankfully DD has made a complete recovery and is thriving again.

On the day this happened DH contacted my folks to let them know what had happened but that everything was ok. We were at the hospital and would let them know when we were back at home. My dad was really emotional and upset on the phone and said he had been sent home from work as he was so upset and that he was booking the next day off work to come to see DD. (I never asked him to do this)

On Tuesday morning, I received a message from my mum to say that she'd had an argument with my dad because she hadn't booked the day off work to come and see DD. My mum works shifts and finishes at 3pm so suggested they would visit after that time (absolutely fine with me and DH) but my Dad blew up at her, told her that she was putting work before her grandchild and hadn't spoken to her since. She let me know that they would be coming to see DD separately due to the argument that they'd had. As you can imagine, we already had enough going on without then needing to mitigate a row that had nothing to do with us, I told my mum this and could they please put their differences aside, come to visit together as we really could use their support.

About an hour later I called my Dad to find out what time they would be coming to visit, he said that he wasn't coming to see DD because he was p**d off at my mum and that the argument was all one sided. I tried to tell him that he shouldn't be letting the argument get in the way of coming round, we really needed them etc. but he wouldn't listen and I lost my temper and put the phone down. (I know I shouldn't have done this)

My mum still came to visit having booked the day off to appease my Dad, but my Dad never showed and I didn't hear anything from him since Monday night until Thursday morning when he messaged me to ask if DD could stop over their house (this had been arranged well before DD had her seizure) to which I replied that we needed to have a chat first. (I wanted to explain that I wasn't comfortable with a sleep over because there was a chance she could have another seizure and she hadn't fully recovered yet). He said 'don't think so' so I sent him a message to explain that I was upset that he hadn't been there to support our family through such a traumatic experience, that I was angry for having being dragged into the middle of an argument that had nothing to do with me (which is common and has had a profound effect on me over the years) and that it wasn't fair for him to allow that to effect my DD in the same way.

He said 'Sorry that's the way you feel' and said that I was making everything sound like it was his fault, as far as he was concerned him and my Mum were finished and that he would take it as a no in regard to DD stopping over.

On Friday morning he messaged me to say he would come and visit but we weren't home that day and I suggested he could come on Saturday instead. I received no reply.

On Saturday morning he messaged to say they both would be round at lunch time the same day.

When they arrived at our house, I greeted my dad at the door with a hug and a kiss and asked if he was ok, to which he said that yes he was and all seemed fine. He then took a seat with his back to the rest of the room and wouldn't talk to anyone except for DD. Both DH and I tried to break the ice to which we both received a frosty/snarky response. Some time later he told my mum to get her things as they were leaving.

I asked him if he wasn't going to speak to me at all and he said that he didn't want to talk about it, there was nothing to discuss and walked out of our house. I tried to follow him outside but he got in his car and drove off.

My mum called him and eventually managed to get him to come back but he wouldn't come inside. I was desperately trying to get him to talk to me but he wouldn't even look at or acknowledge me, he then said to DD 'when you're old enough, get my phone number from Nanna'. I took this to mean that he was walking out of our lives.

Later that evening he called me really upset on the phone to say that he didn't want this and that he didn't want to lose me or DD and that his life wouldn't be worth living without us. He then said he was sorry and he was drawing a line under it and that was it. He said he had to go and ended the conversation.

I was still angry, hurt, upset and confused after this phone call but thought there might be a glimmer of hope for the fact that he had actually called and said sorry. (He never does this)

On Sunday morning I decided to visit their house with DD to try to smooth things over and get to the bottom of all the things that had happened in the week. When I arrived my Dad was carrying on like nothing had happened and that everything was ok so I brought up what had gone on and said that we needed to talk about the issues and resolve them.

He flat out refused to talk to me about it and started getting angry. I said he didn't need to talk but that I needed him to listen to me which he agreed to.

I started off by thanking him for calling and apologising as I understand how difficult that must have been for him (he never says sorry for anything). Then I started to explain how much he had hurt and upset me and DH this week and that we wouldn't be disrespected in our own home.

This turned into a huge fight, he said that I was lecturing him and then accused me of using DD against him and that I had an agenda all along to stop him from seeing her (this is not true at all, I have never at any point said that I would stop him from seeing her)

Things turned quite nasty and some old history was dragged up and although it wasn't really relevant, there have been lots of incidents where he hasn't been there for me or he's stopped speaking to me for no reason then expects things to just return to normal without addressing any of the things that have happened.

Anyway, I made it clear that if he wasn't willing to talk through our issues then I would be leaving and wouldn't be coming back until he was ready to talk to me. He just walked away from me, so I left.

I haven't heard from him since and I haven't tried to contact him as I think it's best we both have some breathing space.

My Mum has messaged today to ask if DD can stop over in a few weeks (again this was arranged months ago as we have a wedding to attend) but I've said that I'm not sure that's a good idea as my Dad is clearly not interested in sorting things out with me, and that we don't deserve to have been treated/spoken to the way that we have. I apologised to her that things are this way at the moment but I'm not willing to sweep this under the carpet like I normally would.

She asked me 'please don't stop DD from seeing us' to which I replied that they are more than welcome to visit her anytime they want to and that they're always welcome in our home. I also said that I'm here when Dad is ready to talk to me and I will listen to him and go from there.

I feel like my dad has created this whole situation from some petty argument that he's had with my mum and now I'm being made to feel like I'm in the wrong for it all.

I'm not sure what will happen next but I feel like I don't want him to be a part of my life at the moment as I can't deal with the way that he is, but most importantly I don't want my DD to end up feeling how I did as a kid with the arguing/silent treatment. My dad could ignore me/not speak to me and my mum for months at a time when I was growing up. He also did the same after I moved out by not getting in touch for the same amounts of time, usually because he and my mum had an argument. When I was pregnant with DD I didn't hear from him for months even when I sent him scan photos etc. he just wouldn't reply.

I've never confronted him about his behaviour before and I'm guessing he doesn't know how to deal with that or that he's angry that I've dared to call him out. Either way this whole thing is just awful and I'm not really sure what to do next.

Sorry for the long post and thank you if you've made it to the end! Any similar experiences or advice would be most welcome 😊

Gosh, what a lot of drama from your parents! I would be inclined to leave things as they are, with you having said they are both welcome to visit your DD at your home (don‘t blame you for not wanting her to stay over so soon after her convulsion) and that you are happy to talk when your dad is ready, but in order for the relationship to move on, you need to clear the air properly.

It might be worth letting him know this doesn‘t mean you are just going to sit there and attack and blame him for everything though as it sounds like that might be what he is expecting and is therefore being (preemptively) defensive.

Sorry I haven’t read all the details.

I don’t see why you are getting caught up in all this drama.

Just concentrate on your daughter and husband and ignore all the rest. Let them reach out to you when they’re ready.

Hope your daughter is doing ok now.

Your dad is weird.

Surely you are talking about your teen ds and his gf here? not 2 grown up dgps?
Tell them to stay away until they grow up.
And mean it.
Your dd does not need to be caught up in their juvenile relationship.

Your dad sounds really quite abusive, to you and your mum. Has he always been like that?

Yes this is very typical behaviour for him

Crikey. I think I'd have to severely reduce or cut contact with him to be honest. You don't want your DD exposed to that sort of shit growing up, grandad throwing his toys out the pram, blanking you and your mum in front of her and refusing to discuss issues like an adult. You've done the right thing saying they can only visit your house and standing your ground about the issues needing to be talked through. He's basically decided he's over it and is trying to force you to be too because he doesn't want to take responsibility and/or have to look at his own behaviour. Don't pander to it, he doesn't get to decide if you have a right to be upset still or not, you do.

I feel like, with a few details changed, I could have written this. Among many other things, this is one of the strategies of one of my parents - sulking, silent treatment, mind games, guilt trips, loaded statements, threats - and then pretending nothing at all happened. I completely get that it's not as simple as just telling them to do one. You've had years and years of conditioning to appease this behaviour and I'm also guessing the outside appearances are often completely fine, so if you say anything you're the one seen to be at fault when the flying monkeys start getting involved.

When I had my eldest I basically started a slow process of withdrawing and now I'm LC. I still see them but not in a "parent" sort of capacity - I don't rely on them for support in any way. I treat them as I would a casual acquaintance or neighbour. It's difficult, and there were some events and scenes especially at the beginning, but it's so much better this way. My children will never be subjected to what I was and that can only be a good thing.

I would stop asking them to babysit (I know it makes things difficult logistically but it is what it is) and stop the overnight stays. Do not be dragged into any drama. Don't expect anything of them. Don't tell them personal information. They can still come and see you, or you can all go out on day trips etc, but I'd keep conversation light and casual. Any hint of arguments/hostility, get your DD out of there.

Good luck and I hope your DD is on the mend now

Way too complicated, but I have no idea why your husband phoned your parents in the first place. In future, just don't tell them all your private business and that will help.

Has he ever had any kind of therapy? He sounds like an unhappy man with a lot of issues.

In all honesty I'm not sure it's in your DD's interests to have him around - the addressing her about getting his number thing is bizarre and horrible.

Please do yourself and your dda favour by cutting ties with your father as much as possible, he is abusive, has been for years and he won't change. Your mother is conditioned to accept his dreadful behaviour but you don't have to be the same. Do not have your dd visiting or staying in his house, have your dm babysit in your house if its needed, ideally she should be leaving your father and making a lovely new life for herself. Break the cycle by cutting your father out, don't have him influence your dd. Best of luck, you can do this.

He made it all about himself from the start.

I think you should do what you told your mum - step back. It's up to him to come to you and apologize.

He sounds very similar to my dad. Sounds like he didn't like the attention not being on him so made a terrible thing that happened to your child all about him.

My dad did something similar after my baby was born. It was a forceps delivery and I lost quite a bit of blood and my baby had to be on antibiotics for a few days, but none of that mattered to my dad, all he could do was moan that he hadn't met his grandson yet and try to make me and the rest of the family feel guilty about it.

If I were you I'd try to protect your child as best as you can from his behaviour. We're trying to do that for our baby, we don't want him growing up experiencing that kind of attitude from someone he should be close to.

Your dad sounds a very unhappy man, probably holding on to some sort of trauma from his own life? All three of you - your dad, your mum, and you - seem to want to fan the flames and keep the drama going to come out top.
There's your dad, turning his back in the room, storming off.
There's your mum, calling you to tell tales on your dad.
There's you, after your dad apologised, which you acknowledge must have been difficult for him, going in to restart the fight by talking about him disrespecting you.

I'm guessing this is your first child and their first grandchild? Families can become obsessive and over-invested with the precious first born. I remember my parents turning into different people with their first grandchild, overly fussing over him in a way they never had with their own children, trying to get him to say which of them was his favourite.

Your parents sound as though they have a dysfunctional relationship and don't communicate well with each other. Add to that a situation of heightened emotion - the adored baby being in hospital - and they have lashed out at each other as a way to deal with their shock. You don't need to be involved in their arguments, you don't need to mediate, you can step away from that. It takes time and courage if you've always done it, which I suspect you have.

You can instantly remove your daughter as a bargaining chip by knocking back emotional blackmail. When you get "please don't stop me/is seeing her" you can say "I'm not stopping you seeing her, it's important to me that she has a good relationship with you, but I don't want her in the centre of an argument so when you've resolved it let me know" or "I'm not stopping you seeing her, it's important to me that she has a good relationship with you, but I don't want you babysitting when you are upset so let me know when you feel better" and so on.

I'd suggest you have some counselling yourself to come to terms with past grievances and to help find new ways of having a relationship with your parents. You need to be able to acknowledge and move past it to be able to interact with them without jumping back to childhood trauma each time there is an argument. You can also suggest they have marriage counselling, but you can only suggest it, not force it. That has to be their choice.

Well your dad has made it all about himself from the very beginning and from what you have posted he just comes across as a controlling bully.

Do your DD a massive favour and keep her away from him.

My FIL is a bit like this. Only he's divorced from MIL, but the behaviours are very similar. All I can say is my DH cut contact with him almost 10 years ago after an episode such as you describe, and nobody misses him. This type of person is all about themselves. I have a longstanding friend who I'm just realising is also similar, after calling out her behaviour recently I think it's time I removed myself from that friendship too. Good luck to you OP, it's stressful dealing with stuff like this.

I think that your father has spent a lifetime training you and your mum to bend to his every wish and is annoyed and flabbergasted that you haven't done it on this occasion

Your df is abusive towards your poor mother. I'd be supporting her in leaving him.

OP have you ever had any therapy to help you unpick the dysfunctional relationship you have with your parents, in particular your dad?

You have done an exceptionally difficult thing in laying down a boundary. It feels extremely uncomfortable to do that when you have been conditioned over a lifetime to accept certain behaviour from an authority figure. So sincerely, well done. I think you could be more assertive and perhaps therapy could help you achieve this. It's about having confidence in your decision making and knowing that you are entitled to firmly place boundaries, even though that person isn't going to like it. For example, when you wrote that your mum (not your belligerent bully of a father) had called to ask if they could have your DD over, my mouth was wide open! The absolute gall of them. But your response, instead of "You must be joking! There is no way on earth she is staying at your house when my father won't even speak to me", was more like "oh I'm not sure it's a good idea".

Unfortunately you cannot change people like this. All you can do is establish firm boundaries to reduce their impact on you and remove their power. Sometimes the only boundary that can achieve this is to go zero contact. Hopefully that won't be the case here, as it's clear you still have some affection for your dad. But you don't need to feel guilty about upsetting him. People like that will always be upset when their behaviour is challenged. As you can clearly see from the fact that he didn't bother to actually see DD when she was ill (despite having flown into a rage with your mum) and made things very difficult for you during an incredibly stressful time, they aren't upset for any genuine reason; they are upset that they have been called out and challenged.

Not going to lie, I gave up halfway through the drama of your initial post. Why are you facilitating this absolutely childish behaviour of your parents? Let them get on with arguing with each other if they wish, just withdraw completely from the situation. Don't phone them up, pleading with one or the other to visit or forgive each other, don't be dragging people back into your house if they are sulking and trying to leave. It's disgraceful behaviour on their part and they are obviously enjoying the hold they have over you with it. Don't pander to it.

He sounds like a nasty man and you and your Mum have spent your lives trying to appease him. I can't stand men like him. I really detest them.

Do you rely on them much? For money, babysitting etc?

I don't think you handled it well but that 100% NOT your fault. It's your Dads fault. You Mum hasn't helped but that might be because she is in what's effectively an abusive relationship.

I'd be distancing myself. Can you see your Mum on your own or does your Dad always have to be there? Have you siblings!

Why did you need your parents to support you after your daughter became ill? Was it practical support or emotional?

Precisely

If had my time over again, one of the many things I would not do is waste time, effort and frustration on trying to appease selfish, unreasonable people.

Thank you everyone for your replies, they're greatly appreciated 😊

I don't depend on my parents financially or for childcare.

I think I will distance myself from the situation now. I do have the capacity to see my Mum on her own but I do worry what consequences she will have to face from my Dad.

I wanted my parents support emotionally in this instance but I recognise that I've spent many years wanting emotional support from my Dad after having the silent treatment as a form of punishment as a child.

I also feel drawn in to their arguments because my Mum has no one else to rely on, she is estranged from her family (grew up in the care system) and only has friends at work. She therefore turns to me to vent/for advice. I know that this is not healthy and have told her before that I don't want to get involved, but when she turns to me I feel obliged to respond because she has no one else and I feel sorry for her and want to help her.

It has taken a long time for me to recognise that my Dad's behaviour is wrong and I know that my conflict resolution skills are lacking due to the environment that I grew up in.

I do feel better for creating a boundary this time and I'm trying my hardest to stick to it, but it's true that I don't feel confident about it. I am adamant however that I don't want my DD to experience these situations and my Dad's negative behaviour so it's important that I protect her by keeping those boundaries in place.

I hadn't considered therapy to resolve my childhood issues but I'm starting to think that this would be a good and healthy thing for me to do. Where do I start with something like that?

Thank you all for taking the time to read my post and respond with your useful advice!

He sounds like my dad. An emotionally manipulative narcissist who is passive aggressive to an extreme and just vile all round. Everything you've said rings bells and it's hard to read.
We've done what you've suggested actually and said he's welcome to see our children at our house or we meet somewhere mid way like a park for a few hours but we don't go to theirs, I don't bend over backwards anymore and I just ignore his victim whining woe is me drama