How to cope with difficult 4yo

[frenchieshouse]

Posted recently about how everything is a struggle at the moment with long working days and 2 preschool DCs. I've realised a big pull on my resilience at the moment is my elder DDs behaviour.

We have had phases of this before and they seem to have passed without any particular way of dealing with things however this phase seems to be getting worse and worse and never ending.

Best way I can describe is her being generally difficult. I think she is still adapting to the change in attention level she gets now she has a younger sister (18months old) but we make a conscious effort that attention is not unbalanced and if anything younger DC just quietly gets on with things usually neglected in a high chair or cot whilst 4 year olds tantrums are being dealt with.

Mostly the behaviour kicks in morning and evening (getting ready for the day/bed) however if we're at home all day it generally consumes the whole day at the moment. She just has a problem with everything - hair, socks, clothes, can't walk... generally non sensical things and will just scream and cry almost immediately then the issue becomes about calming down.

She is fine on her own (eg if younger is napping or not woken yet) so I am convinced it's an attention thing. She is also fine at nursery and with grandparents. And generally fine out and about, however she is starting to get so habitual with this behaviour it is happening out now too sometimes.

I have tried every approach I can think of. Humouring whatever the 'problem' is doesn't work and once solved a follow on issue crops up and it becomes never ending down a rabbit hole of things that she needs help with. Clearly making things up as they sometimes don't even make sense. When taking this approach younger DC is generally left waiting for something like food and I'm sure this is Dd4s aim (diverting attention from other DC).

I have tried ignoring completely and she just seems to go louder and more extreme, gets hysterical, slamming things, storming off. Sometimes dangerously angry (throwing self around) and I feel I have to intervene.

I have researched a lot about SEN as I have sometimes thought this but I don't think so. Some of her issues that set things off are sensory (clothes rubbing etc) but I think this is just habit complaining about the same things. Main thing that makes me think it's not SEN related is she can turn on and off like a switch. Eg if my mum turns up it stops immediately as she is an angel for grandparents. Similarly an angel at nursery.

Threats don't work as she seems to not listen when in the spiral of the screaming and shouting. Current approach of a few stern warnings then taking something away afterwards doesn't seem to be working. Explaining impact on me/others doesn't seem to be working.

If we are getting ready on a work or nursery day I find it highly stressful as her behaviour delays things tenfold and we are always late. I can't ignore when we need to leave. I am generally on my own in a morning as DH leaves early for work.
On non work days I can ignore or take different approaches and drag it out etc but then all we seem to do is have these episodes all day and it's ruining everything at the moment. Last week we were going to bake, craft and go to the park and we did nothing as she couldn't get over sock not on right issue that turned into a 4 hour episode. I helped with the sock many times before giving up/ignoring.

I have guilt that I am not dealing with it well (ignoring feels awful, sometimes I can't take it and lose my temper as I'm only human!) also guilt that younger DC is basically just listening to screaming all day and also getting a bad example.

I'm not sure how comfortable I feel just putting her in her room as she is often a bit crazy when fired up eg could hurt herself. Also getting to her bedroom when in a tantrum takes half an hour as she refuses. I am aware I keep changing tact on how to deal with but I don't know what's right?!

I know this will pass but at the moment it's ruining our lives. DH has one day off a week with the kids and has same problem. He works long hours and generally gets home to meltdown bedtimes.

Any tips?????

Someone will be along with better advice (because my dd is an only so far and not yet 3) but have you tried talking to her about this when she's in a calm mood? That's what my dd's nursery always suggests when we have problems like this.

My dd has recently got into a habit of whining and I've spoken to her about the natural consequence - how when she whines, it puts me in a bad mood and that ruins the day for everyone. And then we're less likely to do fun stuff and more likely to go home early etc. Now when she whines, I say something like "are you whining? Do you want mummy to be in a bad mood?!" And that works 60% of the time.

You could do something similar? Eg, "when you cry, it makes LO cry and then I have less attention for you because i have to look after her. But if you stay calm and wait for me to feed/change your sister, then after that I can play with you/give you a treat etc"

Thanks @Mummy08m yes I've tried explaining but maybe could try this a bit more consistently. However really doesn't seem to be sinking in. I have got really upset a few times (which yes I know isn't the right thing) and have used it as an opportunity for look how upset you are making mummy etc. And no effect. And DH has tried to explain after calm down and still doesn't seem to help. Also grandparents have had words but not getting through.

Sorry not being dismissive, I really appreciate any advice, but I'm not sure that will work right now.

Hoping for any others who are experiencing this?!

My twins are 3 and they are both like this. It's very hard, very tedious. It feels like there is never a moment in the day where there isn't something wrong. It's often socks with them too, strangely enough! I did sticker charts for a while, using things that were achievable (like using the toilet, sharing, eating well at meal times). When they started to kick off I'd say something like "how would you like to earn a sticker? If you tidy this up for me you can choose one". It seemed to work for a while, if I got in there quick enough. Not so much, lately though. So I am following this thread with interest!

We did a happy morning sticker chart. Everytime dd got up, dressed and ready without crying she got as sticker. 4 stickers in a week got a reward - I think I ordered something from wish before I realised the safety implications.

We also cut down on the number of choices in the morning. So in the evening she had to choose on the pictogram what was going in her lunchbox the following day. She had to choose her clothes.

Read how to talk so children will listen and how to listen so children will talk.

@AnneBerlin thanks this has reminded me that we did stickers thing when we had a getting ready issue when she was 3. Improbably should have thought of going back to that but can't see the wood for the trees. She is closer to 5 so I think I thought we had the basics covered now but maybe we go back to the charts.

It's more the screaming than anything. Often she is in the screaming fit before we have even had a chance to be told what's wrong. Sometimes it spirals before even knowing why. It's like no matter what I do it's happening, however, if I (and her younger sibling) weren't there it wouldn't be happening as I'm sure it's all for our benefit.

Thanks for the tips on what works with yours!!

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale thanks another sticker suggestion I have probably missed a trick on something so obvious and now that I think about it positive reinforcement is usually the way to go isn't it, and I'm not doing that at the moment.

Agree on the choices, we have tried to for example select outfit the night before (though she is only choosing from my choices...!) and I'm trying to let her make choices where it doesn't matter eg wear a party dress when she wants on a non nursery day. Trying to not make her feel too restricted.

Seems like sticker chart worth a go and I will also get that book! Is it hard work or an easy read??

Quite an easy read as I remember it. Good luck!

Sounds so much like my younger dc. And once the screaming starts you just have to let it finish itself. I'm actually quite depressed about it at the moment as its just constant and he can never "be".
I'm beginning to think some kids need a firmer hand than is fashionable in parenting now. Really strict parameters and zero tolerance. Very hard to be consistent and carry it out if it doesn't come naturally.
My best example is that the Nintendo was becoming very free for all and he'd go on it on waking (at the weekend) and then the day was ruined as he wouldn't stop, wouldn't get dressed etc. So I drew up a list of rules, with a sticker chart and he can cope with following that. I think some of the behaviour is a reaction to not knowing where they stand.

I am by no means a brilliant parent to my kid like this but trying to move towards former boundaries does seem to help. No idea how you stop the screaming though, sometimes he starts on coming out of school in the playground. 😕

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale thanks!

@YolayCaprese I am also very down about it too. I know these things are just phases but it's really affecting my quality of life at the moment. I'm a very introverted person naturally and so the constant noise and having to think about how to deal with it really rubs off on me.

I also have quite a short fuse though, so introverted but when I can't take it much longer I struggle with the 'strong and silent' approach. I need to get better at this.

I totally agree that firm may be the way to go on this and have been trying that with ignoring, sanctions etc. Now I'm wondering if that's exacerbating it.

But in total agreement it feels like she can never just 'be'. Looking back fondly on a year ago when she used to just play happily for hours or chit chat away about happy stuff, singing, etc. She seems so angry all the time!!!

I am currently going through the same thing. My dad is 4.5 and we had a new addition, ds, this summer and it was like a switch in her. I have tried spending 1:1 time with her, tried a reward system and her behavior has been on and off. Will try something else and hopefully it works