8 year old incontinence!!!

[Suwzlouisa]

Please someone give me the answer!
My 8 year old son is exhausting me with his incontinence. I can’t say he’s ever had more than a month of no accidents at a time and I am pulling my hair out.

Ive spoken to doctors. I’ve spoken to eneuresis. I’ve done everything they’ve told me. We’ve had desmopressin, lactulose, movicol. We monitor types of drinks and diet.
NOTHING WORKS

Night time he’s yet to be dry which I have no problem with. I get that some kids just take longer so I’ve never held it against him and have always been very chilled about it. But day time is becoming relentless. We’re going through 6 outfits a day some days and I am 99% sure it’s laziness. I’ve tried all the approaches, “never mind darling these things happen”, not acknowledging it other than changing him, allowing him to help me clean up, all of them. He’s pretty much admitted it’s cos he’s busy doing other stuff but surely it’s not normal to walk around caked in wee and poo?! Hes getting sore on his groin and quite frankly he stinks!
I’ve tried alarms and regular prompts but he merrily ignores them or argues like mad that he doesn’t need to go. I’m losing my mind! I don’t want to be telling him off but at the same time it’s really bloody hard not to right now.
do I punish him when he’s admitting it’s laziness? Do I give movicol etc even though it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever? Does he need to be embarrassed to make him realise? He just doesn’t seem to care. He has this mentality that as long as he gets changed then what’s the issue.
theres no mental health or physical health issues but he’s the type of child that if you planted the seed that he couldn’t help it he’d run with it. But he’s more than capable of going he just chooses not to.

I’ve had so many mixed pieces of advice and I just need some help because as silly as it sounds it’s really affecting how our days together pan out and I don’t want that.

Eneuresis also recommended a wobble watch for my lad, that he could use in school/anywhere to set multiple reminders (to toilet) without disturbing rest of class we used this and rewards, the medication desmopressin helped with overnight dryness (took two more years but we got there)

Should also say that he had issues with both (wee and poo) once we got on top of the number two's (very slight wheat intolerance) the rest resolved relatively quickly. Good luck

Op so sorry to hear this but I agree with others that you need more help than you're getting currently.

Can you try the ERIC Bowel & bladder charity for help or bowel bladder uk? They both have information and helplines.

Your ds needs to be referred to the child continence service as well.

It sounds to me like wrong dosages of movicol, needs a full disimpaction, then careful management so that bowel regains its proper size etc & that in turn will help with wees and nights and eventually he will get the sensation back.

General practice are pretty useless in my experience.

Good luck but please keep trying with him x

I understand what people are saying about getting more help from GP and continence team but he’s actively said he’s being lazy. And as I said, he’s a manipulative kid in the sense of if he thinks he can use an excuse he will.

It also doesn’t help that his dad doesn’t seem to care about getting it sorted. We’re separated and he’ll merrily bring him back after a couple of hours going on about how he stinks but does nothing to try and solve the issue, he won’t be changed or anything.

He might need 2-3 weeks of school to disimpact. Then slowly lower her dose. I’d plan the summer holidays around this. His bowel may be overstretched and he might have lost sensation.

He’s a kid, he won’t want to be doing this!

I have an 8yo girl with similar issues. It seemed like she didn’t care but she actually really does. Some of it was her getting distracted/ it going when she needed. Like you we tried movicol disimpaction regime multiple times/lactulose/desmopressin/picosulphate/bed alarms. Improving but not altogether sorted. Just got her a vibrating watch to remind her to go at school/when playing outside etc.

solidarity it is so tough and like you I feel it stops us doing fun stuff. He probably does care and is embarrassed but maybe putting on a front or not caring as a coping mechanism.

we got two books - one called max archer kid detective about night setting and one called a girl like me (there’s a boy equivalent) that helps your child know that they aren’t the only one and that treatments are available…

good luck - so hard not to get cross with them but think it’s important not too. Agree that he’s old enough to help with the laundry etc though

So if he soils himself when he’s with his dad he’s not made to wash himself and change clothes? He’s just left like that?

Yup! His dad had him the other day from school and bought him back at 6.30 telling me how much he stinks. I asked why he hadn’t been changed or bathed and the response I got was “well he’s got uniform on” then a load of abuse when I said it’s obvious he needs cleaning up and that he’s getting sore.

That’s horrendous. I’m really sorry.

I’m sure you’re aware, but that would be a big safeguarding concern if a child disclosed that to me at work. Would he tell your son to go and wash himself if it happens again, if he’s not willing to do it?

Honestly him seeing his dad has such a negative impact on loads of elements of his behaviour but he’s obsessed with him and dads never done “enough” to warrant stopping him seeing him.

I should possibly name change for this, but too lazy.

My son who soiled himself for a loooong time, eventually saw me in the bathroom washing out his underpants as they were so dirty if I put them straight in the wash I think they would contaminate the other clothes, so when bad, I would hand wash them first.

So he saw me, handwashing his soiled underwear and he was shocked that I had to do this.

Not sure what he thought happened before that, the soiled underwear mysteriously disappeared???

Anyway, he tried a lot, a lot harder after that and the situation eventually rectified itself.

Very low milk diet, lots of water, lots of fibre. He is still prone to constipation, so I need to remember to keep an eye on his diet. I have over the counter constipation medication, which he refuses to take. I occasionally find a soiled underpants in the outside bin (maybe once per year....... Havnt noticed it in alooong time). Exercise also helps to move the bowels. Wheetabix and a walk to school.

Hope this helps.

We also got a dog, several years ago, and house training the dog was also hard work, and we were all a bit obsessed about the dogs wee and poops requirements, endless discussions.

It broke the tension about the accidents and some of my chit chat to the dog had a second aim at my sons ear, it was a gentle way to toilet train both dog and child. It helped a little

Oh please don't punish him. You need to reward good behaviour like toilet sits - but only things they can control.
My daughter couldn't explain it to me when we went through this. She probably wanted it to just go away.
It was eventually sorted after close care from continence nurse, medications, new routines, drinking more and better toilet habits and a lot of patience.

And my daughter used to try and explain it by being lazy, but I know it wasn't just that. She had no sensation of going.

Same as my son.

They hold it in for so long, they become constipated, until the sensations dims and they don't get the warning that they are about to go. They can't verbalise the sensation.

Don't punish.

Do set the alarm to go sit on the toilet. Offer to walk someone else's dog, and if he enjoys that, make him go to the toilet first before he can get that treat or any other treat/fun activity.

Been here and got the t shirt with my dd. It’s not behavioural, so punishing and reward systems won’t work. In the case of my dd, it was chronic constipation to the point of impaction. You need referring to a specialist who understands these problems. The first thing is to do a proper clear out (under medical supervision), on gradually increasing amounts of Movicol, until they’re totally empty. You then work back down to a level that keeps things moving. The urinary incontinence will likely be related to the build up of faeces pressing on the bladder. As mentioned, ERIC can advise, and the Facebook page Movicol Mummies is excellent. My dd is now 13, and we’re finally out the other side, but we’ve had YEARS of multiple accidents daily. At first I couldn’t understand why constipation leads to accidents, but as mentioned, you get a blockage, then leakage around that, and also loss of sensation of needing to go. I sympathise, it’s a nightmare, but actually very common. All the best.

Just to add, we still have to be vigilant that dd goes to the loo daily, as what you want to avoid is things backing up.

8 year olds can’t always understand what is going on with their bodies so if you’ve asked for a reason he’s possibly said he’s being lazy just to give you an answer because he doesn’t know how to say the right answer. He’s not going to be able to describe his colon being overstretched or overflow is he so possibly just chooses the easy answer

Hi, I know this is really tough because I've been there myself and I was at my wits end with it. I just needed to say that my son's bladder and bowel incontinence were picked up by our GP as a sign of autism and he has since been assessed and diagnosed.

We saw a child psychologist and she said we needed to focus on him getting the "sneaky poo" out of his body rather than being clean and dry (at first) He got 10 points for a poo in the toilet, 5 for in his pants and he had to build up to prizes. He soon realised that he got points and prizes quicker if he went to the loo. His hyper-focus was making him fail to notice his toilet cues.

My daughter had constipation / overflow and it was food intolerance. Cleared up in 2 weeks once we cut it out. Lactose and fructose were what we tested for.

I feel your pain. We are in the same boat with our 7.5 year old dd. She’s been referred for asc and we suspect she has adhd.

We’ve also done everything over the last 5 years. Continence team, Eric, multiple disimpactions, scans, play therapy, various medications.

She says she can’t feel the need to go until it’s too late or can’t tell when she’s had an accident. She does have sensory issues but I also feel like she’s telling us what she thinks we want to hear at times. She also refuses to even try at regular intervals and gets quite angry about it.

Its having a massive negative impact on all our lives and stops us doing things as a family. Also she’s missing out on play dates, brownie sleepovers etc. We went out for 3 hours today and she had 3 accidents.