My toddler won't sleep

[jsk18]

I'm at my wits end and feel like I'm at breaking point.
My 3yo has multiple night wakings, ends up in our bed (sometimes we are so exhausted that we have absolutely no energy left to take him back to his own bed so he ends up in here after all the hassle), wakes up for the day around 4-4:30am and will not go back to sleep.
If he doesn't nap during the day he will typically go to sleep between 6-7pm. If he does nap, it always ends up being too late but it's impossible to keep him awake (after 2-3pm) so he ends up not going to sleep at night until around 9pm (even though we start bedtime at 7:30-8).
Honestly kind of feels like he's broken, and just doesn't need sleep but it's clear he does.
He wakes up in a foul mood, loads of tantrums and tears (most likely because he's so fucking sleep deprived) and it's honestly ruining our lives.
We have a 5mo DD too who sometimes sleeps through and other nights is up a few times as to be expected. Overall she is a much better sleeper than he is at 3yo!

Me and DH equally try and take on the load so this isn't about asking someone for help etc, but it's definitely affecting our relationship now as we are so snappy being sleep deprived and stressed constantly.

I don't even know why I'm posting this, maybe for help, maybe so I can word dump all this stress out of my head and into writing. I'm just really not coping. 😢

Does he have a night light? Have you tried the invisible string book?

@potatowhale he does have a night light yes, I've not heard of string book?

Drop the nap. Put him to bed at 7 and get him up at 7 every day. Buy a grow clock. Find a book about the importance of sleep. I just used the grow clock book and talked about we would both be a grumpy pig during the day and wouldn’t have fun if DC didn’t sleep. Make sure he gets a healthy diet with supper before bed and lots of exercise and fresh air.

Make sure you have back out blinds and curtains.

I know I'll be in a minority, but if he sleeps well in your bed then why not let him if it gets you all more sleep.

Drop the nap, it is not your friend here. If he wakes at 5am for the day put him to bed at 6pm at the latest (potentially earlier than this while he’s still waking at night so much). Let that new routine of 12-13 hours awake/11-12 hours asleep settle in so he’s less overtired. Then start inching everything back by half an hour. So push bed back to 6:30pm and wait for the morning wake to hopefully catch up. If it doesn’t, you may have to accept that he is an early riser and needs an early bedtime, but breaking to cycle of overtiredness may reduce the amount of night wakes. Make sure he is mentally and physically exhausted during the day - my relatively low sleep needs 3 yo needs minimum 2 hours of running round outside or at soft play if the weather is awful, plus lots of games and mental stimulation. Hard with a tiny baby, but needs must.

Giving empathy OP. It’s all very well to be told to bring bedtime forward, but my 2yo is exactly the same. If we bath at 5.15 and bed at 6, it just means the struggle is longer and angrier and ruins our evening. We are phasing out his nap (remember he’s a bit smaller than your DS) so he’s down to 1 hour a day, and I’ve bought it forward to around 11/11.30am so he’s awake for longer all afternoon.

I find the days he’s at home with me and baby (6mo) he sleeps better than when he’s been at nursery - I make sure we spend a LOT of time outside and he eats loads, drinks a lot of water and ONLY water (he still has bedtime milk). Limited sugar and none after 2pm.

Some nights he’s asleep between 7-8pm but the norm is around 9pm. Baby sleeps 7-7 with 1 night feed wake, he’s always been a better sleeper than my eldest. Toddler was formula fed, baby is BF. Same routines used for both (blissful baby expert). I honestly just think you either get a good sleeper or you don’t.

We have Blackout blinds, gro clock, carb based dinner, leakproof water beaker in bed with him. 90% of the time once he’s down, he’s down for the night. If he wakes, one of us gets into his bed with him instead of bringing him in ours. Trying to drill in that his bed is his bed. Agree to an extent with PP that if co-sleeping gets everyone more sleep, do it.

We never let anyone else do eldests bedtime until after he turned 2 because he’s such hard work. We had a party recently so had no choice but to get a babysitter for bedtime. We told grandparents to not even bother trying bed and let him stay up. Twice they have watched him and twice he has fallen asleep on the sofa by 7.30pm! So my advice is to get a date night booked in so you and DH can spend some 1-1 time even if it’s just for a meal.

and… it won’t last forever. DREAMING of the teenage years where he never wants to leave his bedroom! :’)

I feel your pain. My son was like this and the no sleep was slowly killing me off!! I had tried
everything and in the end I set bed time every night for 7pm. I had head phones I would wear and I sat our side his room for first 3 nights. He screamed went crazy. But I could see him knew he was safe and he could see me. But do not talk or acknowledge the bad behaviour. After 3 nights I moved to the top of the stairs same again no contact. Then each night I moved further down. YES this is extreme and NO it isn’t for everyone. Those who say they couldn’t leave their kids screaming- fine no problem. Don’t do this way then.
but for me I was a single parent, worked ft, and I was exhausted it was my last resort.
I never looked back OP it worked xx
(he also had a leak proof flask of water in his room of thirsty- he was 3yo when I did this, I had had 3 years no sleep. No exaggeration). Yes I felt rotten, yes I wish there had been a kinder way but this worked and we are both happier for more sleep! I have since had 2 other children and used this method with both and it worked again. Xx

Absolutely no suggestions for right now but I could have written this post word for word a couple of years ago. We tried night light, different bed set ups, galaxy projector, gro clock, different bed times, different nap times, dropping naps… nothing made a difference at all, all the well meaning advice in the world won’t change the fact some children adapt to what we feel are ‘normal’ sleep patterns and some simply just dont. My little boy is now 5 and a wonderful sleeper it just kind of happened and we often forget how bloody draining it was for quite a time (so much so that I am now pregnant with number 3 🤦🏻‍♀️) it WILL get better just hold on and do what you can to weather the storm.

Swap the nap for quiet time and get a consistent set bedtime for 7pm every night. Get a grow clock and reward staying in bed until it changes with stickers etc and explain about the importance of sleep and staying asleep. Make sure there is also plenty of time for exercise during the day to wear him out. If he gets up in the night, consistently walk him back to his bed and explain its sleep time and he must go back to sleep. Being consistent and boring is key

Hi @jsk18 I know this is an old thread. I came across it whilst I was being kept awake between 2:30-6 this morning.
I was just reaching out to see if you did anything any different that worked. And how is he now for you almost a year on?
😴😴😴
Xx

Advice needed for non sleeping 18 month old, I’m really struggling with having no sleep at night, my DD has been this way since birth and has always struggled with sleeping. Naps used to take hours of trying, walking round in circles and white noise just for a little nap. She now has just one nap a day so the not sleeping at night isn’t overtiredness or under, we’ve altered times and tried changing this fo be sure. She falls asleep at 7pm every night but by 11pm she is awake and will not go back to sleep until 4am. This isn’t a temporary regression it’s been months and months.

Some nights she will stay in and out of sleep but will wake up every 40 minutes to be held. We take turns getting up so we can both have a little sleep but it’s not enough and it’s getting to the point we are basically up all night long. She has also never slept in our bed and therefore will not sleep if we move her into our bed either. Any advice would be amazing or to know if anyone else’s little ones have been the same, and if this will stop.