at what age do they not tantrum any more??? sorry, long. but would really appreciate responses

[redpyjamas]

I am feeling so exhausted and weary right now. I am a single mum, and when I've finished typing this, I will need to go and bath and read to my dds, so I will check the thread when I get back.

My dd age 5 still sometimes has tantrums. Really really long ones. Screams and insults and hurts me and is absolutely uncontrollable. It goes on sometimes literally for hours. Usually she is such a caring, sweet but fiery child. Very dramatic. We have a close relationship.

But these occasional tantrums:

I try to ignore, or give time-out but that doesn't work.

I try to hold her tight in a cuddle and speak softly, but there is no abating and she refuses to listen to anything or discuss anything.

The one today started when she was playing at a friend's house, and this particular friend is quite high-maintenance and easily wound up. Personally, I sometimes wonder whether she gets all 'upset' and comes telling tales just to get my dd into trouble. They have quite a love-hate relationship. They get on really well often, but really know how to wind each other up. The other girl is 7. I think her mum always thinks that her dd is not the one causing arguments (though she does accept that she over-reacts).

So, becauise of those factors, I feel more upset about the whole thing. I know that my dd is often in the wrong, but she seems to be always the only one taken up for it and the other girl never gets any discipline. Her mum assumesthat my dd is the only instigator. So, of course my dd feels ingignant that she has been asked to stop saying or doing a certain thing, and it all escalates from there...
Am I explaining this coherently?

But, onto the issues with my own dd:

1. I know that she is not a reliable truth-teller (I SEE or HEAR her do or say things, and she persistently denies it). Incidentally, I also witness this other friend telling lies regularly, so that makes it impossible to actually know who did what, and her mum believes that her own dd is always truthful when she comes telling tales.

2. I know that she often argues with other children about really trivial things, just to get a reaction. I have tried everything within my power to deal with this tendancy. E.g.
   child x "My cousin lives in Australia"
   my dd "no she doesn't"
   repeat x 3 (child x getting quite annoyed)
   child x "MUMMY - doesn't my cousin live in Australia?"
   mummy "yes"
   I try to gently tell the other child to ignore my dd when she argues so ridiculously. I firmly tell my dd not to argue about it.

Does anyone have any experience of that kind of behaviour in a child of 5?

Am I just getting fed up with the added factor of this other child because I'm stressed and hate the thought that it is always (seemingly) my own dd getting full blame? Am I being unreasonable and unneccesarily resentful of her?

Tbh, at this time I feel so worn out and beyond my depth. I am scared that she will grow up still being argumentative and untrustworthy. Like her father - who was those things to the exteme of being abusive, and who I have to fight to protect them from. But that is another story. This dd in question was only 3 months old when we escaped from him, and has seen him only twice since in a contact centre.

I don't think tantrums are that unusual in a 5-year-old.

I don't think lying is that unusual in a 5-year-old either.

The winding up/pointless contradiction is not something I've seen that much in my own dc's, but my db was a past master at it. It always seemed to come on just before a tantrum, almost like something he needed to do to work himself up to the release of a tantrum.

Well, he's a grown man now, and he's not tantrumming anymore . And he's a great dad and a happily married man, so obviously it's done him no permanent harm.

I can understand that you are worried because you have the image of your ex at the back of your head. But honestly, it's you bringing this girl up, not him. And whatever she turns out to be in her own right, she's not going to be a clone of him.

So just try to deal with these tantrums now, as the tantrums of a 5-year-old girl, don't project into the future. Many of the greatest tantrum-throwers grow up into charming adults.

My youngeste Ds is 5.5yrs old and can throw some right old tantrums still !

I have two boys and having witnessed some of the DD of my friends there are some girls who are having tantrums and trying to get their own way by throwing their weight about at 7 yrs !

So I think it is fairly common .

She won't necessarily grow up to be argumentative and untrustworthy. My ds was a real tantrum king, right up to 5 (and I think a bit beyond). I was also a single parent and he had speech problems too, which made him frustrated.
I found that timing him out wasn't working, so I changed tack and timed myself out instead, so that he wasn't seeing me get wound up about it iyswim. However I don't believe what works for one child will always work for another, so I think it's just a case of trying to find a way that will get your dd over the tantrum with the least amount of aggro. I also tried to spend time doing something nice with him, that he enjoyed, so that our time together wasn't always marred by unpleasantness all the time.
Fwiw, my ds was a horror right up until he was about 6, he's now a teen and he's lovely, you should take heart from that.

Thank you everyone who replied.
I will try to not worry about the future too much.
Very hormonal today anyway, and just fed up with always having to deal with my child mis-behaving in other people's houses. It's plainly embarrasing. And frustrating that I can't speak to other child about her behaviour as she's not my child.

I can remember having my last tantrum aged about seventeen.

DS1 is 7 1/2yrs old and still throws some major tantrums when he feels like it, also very adept at lying too. BUT on the whole he's a lovely boy and I just put it down to being "on of those things".

The other peoples' houses thing is very tricky, I know. Sympathy.