4.5 month old waking every 30 to 45 minutes at night. HELP! Do I need to teach self settling?

[Purple89]

Desperate for any words of wisdom you can provide! Please pleaze help if you can. I am so grateful for any advice or tips.

Full story so as not to drip feed...

19 week old DD, born 2 weeks early. She has never slept well due to reflux and CMPA. Formula fed (breast fed for first 6 weeks in combination with formula).

Until recently all naps were contact naps or in the sling or pram. A couple of weeks ago she stopped being able to do long naps in the pram or car. She also seems to get fed up of the sling after 30 mins and wakes up protesting.

Things reached a crunch point at 13/14 weeks where she was waking hourly/ every 45 minutes. The following things helped enormously at that point-

• Getting into a good nap routine. We roughly follow the Little Ones app timings which are (for a 7.30 to 7.30 day) 9.45 to 10.30am first nap, 12.45 to 2.50 lunch time nap and 5.10 to 5.30 afternoon nap. She goes down really well (cuddled to sleep) but does need resettling during the lunch nap. Cuddled to sleep at bed time then transferred to next to me crib. Cuddled to sleep at all wakes.
• Fleecy sleepsuits (she seems to like being cosy).
• White noise
• Increasing her omaprezole medication
• Hydrolysed formula (Aptamil Pepti 1) and carobel- this helped immensely
• Cranial osteopathy- saw significant differences from this

She stopped being able to sleep longer than 45 mins in one go in the day about 4 or 5 weeks ago but until a few days ago was making great strides with this and sometimes getting herself back to sleep during her lunch nap with no crying.

After the changes above we ended up in a pattern where she would wake for feeds 12/1 and then again between 3 and 5, with very light sleep from 5am onwards (often requiring resettling).

Then almost a week ago she went to 3am, then the next day she slept through the night! I almost cried I was so happy.

Then 2 nights ago after such positive developments it has all gone to pot. She wakes every 20 to 45 minutes crying. She won't take a bottle but seems to want her dummy. This settles her but then 30 or 45 mins later she is awake again and spitting it out then crying for it to be put back in. Even if I cuddle to sleep it seems to make no difference, she will wake and do it again.

Even cosleeping hasn't solved this (I often bring her into my bed and safely cosleep from 4 or 5am onwards if she is disrupted). She was still waking and wanting me to put her dummy back in.

My husband is helping as much as he can thank goodness but we are both exhausted.

What is going on, any ideas? Is this the 4 month regression? I thought we had hit this 4 or 5 weeks ago but maybe not? However I had thought sleep cycles were 2 hours at night meaning you should expect 2 hourly wakes as a result of the regression.

As I haven't taught her to self settle, do I need to do that to solve this issue? Do you think I should take the dummy away? Last night my husband tried to cuddle her to sleep without the dummy and her cries were distressing, she screamed and screamed (our cuddles were not enough). So removing the dummy will be horrid.

Does the 4 month regression pass if you don't teach self settling in which case I just need to ride it out? Or should I start teaching her?

Has anyone else been in the same boat?

Thanks so much for reading.

Apologies for typos.

4 month sleep regression.
No need to ever teach self settling before 3yo in my opinion, cuddle them and soothe them when they are so little and at their most vulnerable to help their development and continuing relationship with you.
I'm tagging @FATEdestiny hope that's her tag, can't remember, she's the font of all knowledge.

Thank you @PerfectPrepPrincess. When you say no need, is that because you think they will develop the skill in their own time?

My poor DD is so tired today bless her. Her eyes are red. I am taking her to the GP this afternoon to rule out any physical causes e.g. an ear infection.

I did Ferber method with DS1 when he was 6 months, as he was exactly like your daughter.

DS2 is nearly 21 weeks and currently wakes every couple of hours. I will be sleep training him at 6 months as well.

Sleep training brings out the martyrs on this forum. Mumsnet is generally very against sleep training and if you feel it is the best route for your family (it was for mine!), I would advise you not to post here. Netmums and Reddit are far more understanding in this regard.

Personally, I am a better parent after having a good night's sleep. I was a risk to my baby when I was overtired, and cosleeping didn't help in the slightest. My DS was a much happier baby once he slept well and met milestones far better. A couple nights of tears (where I went in to reassure that I hadn't abandoned him) equated to way less crying in the long run where DS was always fussy because he was exhausted.

This is just what babies do. I follow Nurture Neuroscience on Facebook and like their philosophy on sleep. Worth a look. Mine are older now, they get there in the end!

I bought the book 'teach your child to sleep'. It has lots of factual information and practical suggestions.

God I remember this well! 4 -6 months was absolute hell. Every hour on the hour of not more. Co slept but yep didn't actually help.

I refused to sleep train. Personal choice. Its not for me. He's 9 months now and sleeps all night in the cot alone. I put him in and off he goes. It passed naturally for us. We kept to the same routine, kept doing exactly what we were doing.

No sleep training or self settling. Just time and patience.

Again, I have nothing against people that do feber or other methods. You do what you need to do, but it wasn't for me And it passed on its own (until the next time it goes to pot which it probably will at some point but for now im enjoying a glass of wine on the sofa!)

Fingers crossed and sending you hugs. It's fucking brutal

@MooseBreath Thank-you for sharing your experiences and for the tip re Reddit and Netmums. This is definitely something I will bear in mind if we get to the 6 month mark and things are still difficult. Well done on making the right choice for your family and thank you for posting!

@Crumbcatcher ans @lorisparkle thank you very much, I will check these out!

@Cluelessfirstimer Thank you so much! It is good to know there could be light at the end of the tunnel. Fingers crossed I have a similar experience!

Babysleepsite.com is amazing for advice.
Yes they'll learn it in time when they finally understand what's going on.
They're hard wired to cry out as evolutionary wise we are to be with them until they don't need us. We are their protector from the wild, which yes is no longer wild but their little brains don't realise it. Stress to a baby plus havoc on their brain so if you can stick it out to cater for their needs as long as you can it will pay off, trust me!
Mine is almost 2, we co slept them on my lap me on the sofa BUT I DIDN'T SLEEP AS IT'S DANGEROUS...during naps and they slept in the next to me crib and I just went to bed laying next to them as quiet as i could be. They woke as babies do, frequently I just shushed them back. I was sleep deprived but lowered my standards, did bare minimum housework etc but I glad I did as I'm adamant it's helped my LO eventually sleep through the night around 11 months I think it was and has been ever since. We bounced to sleep on a yoga ball until 16 months then in 1-2weeks transitioned to just rocking on the ball then cuddling in the cot as they started nursery. This worked really well with minimum stress as they'd built up an understanding of words enough to understand what and why.

I think the key thing is to realise that it isn't all or nothing. It isn't a straight choice between leaving them to cry or not letting them cry at all. You can gradually support them in learning how to sleep for longer.

The other thing is that you have to do what suits you and your family best.

Following this as we're going through the same thing with our 3.5 month old. It is exhausting and I'm also confused about whether teaching to self soothe is needed, or if this happens naturally. Having just spent the last 30 minutes jiggling her around, I'm hoping it's the latter!

I’m so sorry this is a truely sh*t phase. I know you are likely so despairing at present and just wanting something to fix the current situation, I’ve been there with my now 18 month old. I drove myself bananas trying to find something I could do to help the situation and in reality it just naturally sorts itself out overtime. We did do sleep training at 8 months or so, it wasn’t very nice but did get him sleeping better for a few weeks and then teething or illness came so I would comfort him a lot then need to sleep train again and we got stuck in that cycle. Looking back on it I wish someone had just reassured me I wasn’t doing anything wrong, this is all really quite normal and within a few weeks you will likely be looking back on all this seeing things have improved. Ps sorry I can’t give you anything to rapidly resolve things now, embrace and relax as much as humanly possible when holding your own eyes open with match sticks xxxx

Ps your baby may be having some teething beginning, this truely does ruin sleep and will just be an on and off thing if this is the case. It’s likely a lot of pre developmental leap stuff at the 4 month mark too and tends to settle whenever they do “the thing” they are developmentally leading up to

Are you sure they don't need an amino acid formula? Pepti is just hydrolysed I think?

I say that as waking with each sleep cycle is classic for reflux/silent reflux. Improving daytime napping helps but CMPA does wake them with acid reflux if the milk isn't right.

The waking every sleep cycle! DS1 had it, and silent reflux and it’s hell. Honestly, the only thing that really helped was time. As he grew older it got better, although that’s not what you want to hear.

It’s only now I have another baby I realise how badly DS1 slept.

I should add mine was diagnosed CMPA with silent reflux. We put the mattress on a permanent gentle incline plus omerprazole and prescribed milk but the 1st type not the milk for anaphylactic reactions.

How is your baby going back to sleep during the night @Purple89 ?

Poor baby and poor you, this sounds really hard. Tbh that does sound excessive to me, I would definitely take your baby to the doctor and get them checked out, they sound like they're in discomfort.

It is possible they're waking at the end of every sleep cycle and pp are right that this is normal, but I'm surprised that co-sleeping doesn't settle them right away.

Failing the doctor I would contact a gentle and holistic sleep coach to see if there is anything they can suggest to help you. Think someone Lyndsey Hookway approved.

Please do not sleep train your baby, from what you've described it probably wouldn't even work and it will traumatise both of you.

Thank you all so much. I took her to the GP who does think she has an ear infection so she is on antibiotics. Obviously we don't know if that was the cause of the sleep change although it certainly wouldn't have helped! Will see how she goes.

@LapinR0se I take her out of her crib, offer her a bottle (she often doesn't want it in the night nowadays but feeds very well in the day) then cuddle her to sleep. At this point she normally cries until I give her a dummy. I rock her in my arms and ssh her. I wait 20 mins from her falling asleep and then put her back. From 4am onwards often my attempts to put her back fail and we cosleep.

@PragmaticWench you're right it's only hydrolysed. However her nappies have been so much better on this formula and she has gone up a percentile so they are very happy with her weight gain. We have an appointment with the paediatrician soon though so will mention this and see what they say, thank you!

Also just to note I think there is a variety of different sleep training techniques and I think my question about self settling was about whether I should be putting my baby down awake and doing ssh pat type things rather than CIO. But it sounds like most people think she will learn it herself at some point even if I keep putting her down asleep?

Don't sleep train!! It's reflux, poor little baby. It is hell. Try and go and see a good private paediatrician who knows about reflux and cmpa - go to a totally hydrolysed formula, get a sleep wedge so baby can be nearly upright at night, try the other medication approach with anti histamine not omeprazole - just research the hell out of it!!!! Reflux is badly diagnosed and badly treated for the most part. Good luck - It's a completely different kind of parenting and honestly
is a long haul. it can go on for months but just find out as much as you can and put in place some help so you can sleep in the day or something.

You should absolutely try putting her down awake and doing shush pat. I think your baby is waking every sleep cycle because she’s being put down asleep. Try it and see