Please help me deal with this fairly...

[Citronella]

DS is in reception. For some time he has been talking about another boy at school who picks on him (and a couple of his friends) and calls him names. In fact we have even witnessed a couple of the instances at the school gates. We have actually mentioned it to the school. So far we have been telling DS to just ignore this boy and just tell the teachers. Anyway, today I have been told that DS was seen giving this boy a thump on the back by one of the dinner ladies. The school's message to us is this is unacceptable behaviour and of course it is but how do I deal with it with DS given the history?
Any advice or similar experiences greatly appreciated.

If you haven't done so already you need to get DS's version of events as, IME, dinner ladies only ever see part of the picture and are too quick to draw their own conclusions.

I haven't spoken to DS yet but didn't want to pounce on him ifyswim as soon as I pick him up.

Probably a bit late now but this happened with my DS recently; I've told him that hitting is absolutely unacceptable and if I find out he's done it again, he is in HUGE trouble.

I've also instilled in him that he does NOT play with this child. He will then stay out of trouble (DS hit out at another kid on the instruction of bully - get bully out of the way and DS will go back to being his usual calm self) but it would work in your case too...

I ask daily if he has been good or if he played with X and he hasn't been in trouble since (it was totally out of character too so am pleased to see he's gone back to normal).

I also apologised to the child DS hit's parents although I wouldn't apologise if DS had hit the bully; he deserved it and your poor DS was probably at the end of his tether and lashed out. It is true - lunch helpers do only see the reaction to the provocation and don't get the whole story 99% of the time.

Hopefully the bully will keep away now your son has given him what for.

i wouldnt do anything really.

i always told my kids that if they were hit - they tell the teacher

if they were hit again after that - they hit them back

if they hit first and i got to know about it - they were in deep shit.

i make no apologies for parenting this way. sometimes there are just mean kids - and howevr we see fit in an adult word to deal with this in a calm contexualised way - in practice it usually means that your kid is a punching bag when the teachers arn't looking

and fuck me if the kids mum usually ( i say generalising) not apologetic stick up for my kid whatever! type.

so all i can say is that i think its heartening that your lad isn't afraid to stick up for himself and give a dig right back at the other lad.

although i wouldn#'t say this outloud of course - outloud i would maintain that the first port of call should be teachers thereby not undermining thir authority.

What is often ignored by the type of people who say piously that hitting is always wrong is that there is a certain type of bullying which consists of constantly needling and teasing someone, and escalating the teasing when the other person shows any signs of anger. Some small children do this because they have yet to learn that annoying an angry person, while very good fun, carries a risk of consequences: some older people do it because they are unpleasantly manipulative and the whole point is to make the angry person lash out, because then the teaser can make a big deal out of 'WAAAH! you HIT me!' Frankly the odd slap or thump among young children is so not the end of the world - it would be as well to make the teachers aware that the other child has been tormenting yours for some time so they understand the reason for the hitting (and should the cycle of tormenting and lashing out continue, they will perhaps intervene sooner).

Sorry we have always told our dds that if someone hits them they need to hit back. So what if they get a detention or lose a playtime. The bully will not see them as such an easy target next time!

I would not feel safe telling my children to hit a bully. What if they hit too hard and there is an accident? Or (more likely with my dc's!) the bully happens to be stronger and hits back harder? No gain there, then.

Fortunately, the issue has never arisen as both schools my dc's have attended have really strong anti-bullying policies. Any verbal bullying and the children would know what to do (tell an adult). They have been trained to look out for each other. And the adults in the school have all been trained in how to stop undesirable behaviour. Any bullying relayed to me, and I'll go into the school and talk to the teachers, who (IME) will react immediately.

This has happened very rarely to my knowledge, but when anything has occurred, the school has been very proactive and something has been done.

My point is- I know not every school does this. But it is what they should be doing, and if they are not, then you as a parent have a right to know why. Ask to see their anti-bullying policy. Demand to know what they are actually doing in any specific situation. It is part of their job. Don't let them off the hook!

Besides, hitting out against verbal bullying isn't really a life skill, is it? What will happen if you do that later in life? In the office? On the shop floor? We all know that there are workmates (or bosses) who indulge in verbal harrassment, but we really haven't got the option of punching them!

Thank you for your messages. We have always told him to tell the teachers but i'm not sure if he does or if they take any notice. I asked him what sort of a day he'd had at school and he didn't even mention it. I have left a message at the school for them to contact me so I can learn some more facts. Cory they claim to be v. anti bullying. Custardo and madamez i think your attitude is probably the right way forward.

Custy I have the same rules - teacher first, hit back if this doesn't work. Tough if anyone doesn;t like it. Bullies don't IME respond to namby pamby politically correct ways of 'understanding their problems' discipline.

Cory - once a bully knows their victime is prepared to hit back they generaly switch their attention to someone else who isn;t going to hit back, even if they could out-fight the firdt victim. And yes ideally all school should have strongly enforced anti-bullying rules, but they don't, and you can't really say to your bullied child 'well they should enforce the rules a bit better shouldn't they then you wouldn't get punched/kicked/sworn at. I'll keep phoning them till they do enforce the rules' In the meantime your dc continues to be victimised. And yes the rules for adults are different becuase we have laws against GBH, and laws against discrimination and harassment in the workplace. But the police and solicitors can hardly intervene in every straightforward case of playground abuse can they.

the hit back thing is bad though when the child hitting back after ages and ages of being tormented ends up in trouble - this happened to my friend's daughter who was eventually excluded

so if they're going to defend themselves physically they need to be very sure nobody will witness it and cast the bullies in the role of victim and the victim as the bully

That's where parents come in - if you've complained time and time again to the school, and told them you have now said to your dc that they can hit back aas school doesn't seem to be doing anything at least they have been warned and there shouldn't be any repercussions. And if there are stuff it - to a bullied child havibng their parents on-side is so much more important than having school on their side. Obviously both on their side shoudl be the ideal...

There is also a problem with teaching children to run bleating to Authority over every difference of opinion rather than trying to resolve the matter themselves. There are enough whiny bucketheads around as it is without raising more of them. Surely part of being a parent is helping kids to develop skills to keep themselves safe rather than expecting someone else to 'do something' about every little incident.