Casual remark at nursery has me worried about DS

[Oceanwarmedbythesun]

DS turned two in December and he does struggle with social situations. He will sometimes push and bite. Nursery tell me when this happens as they should, and they commented that he isn’t very verbal. I thought he was about average and now I’m worried.

He has a lot of words - well over a hundred, but he isn’t asking questions or using sentences much, I do know some of his friends are saying quite complex things like over there mummy and so on.

I am just wondering if it’s anything to be concerned about?

*is normal excuse my autocorrect

here is some more info re biting.

Pertinently, “Biting is common in young children and tends to be more frequent between the ages of one and two years old.”

DS’ biting started at around 17 months and I would say peaked at 18/19 months and eased off at 20. It’s infrequent but does still occasionally happen.

I don’t think there is a parent out there who hasn’t been really, genuinely upset when their child bites another. It is horrible and it’s worse than when your child is bitten, which I know because both have happened. But equally, I do think we have to employ some common sense. If biting was the sign of a huge developmental delay, it’s unlikely there would be so much on the internet and in books about it being a normal albeit upsetting stage many (not all) toddlers go through.

Also, at this young age there are huge differences between children even a few months apart and how you’d react to a three year old biting and how you’d react to a child who isn’t even two and a quarter biting are different. Pointing out the wrong he’s done won’t work: all it will do is let him know I’m cross with him but he won’t know why. That’s never effective in terms of parenting or teaching and actually can lead to more unwanted behaviour through frustration and distress.

Our son’s speech in sentences came quite quickly after 2. He had lots of words but not many phrases before that - “feed me” “go out” spring to mind. Then suddenly I realised I was sitting on the sofa with him having a conversation. Walking took some effort for him, because of his early birth difficulties, once that settled down he started paying attention to talking more. Hasn’t shut up since

I would be concerned about the biting more than the words which sounds average.

I don't think you need to have a "firm" conversation. I think you've misunderstood my suggestion. I think you should talk to your DS without infantilising your language to match his own, and without assuming he has no recall of events earlier in the day (which he certainly does, that develops before 2y).

You can make it more general, general conversations (well, monologues obviously as he has little speaking yet) about not hurting other people. Little and often. Every time something related comes up on TV. Every time you see another child have a meltdown at the soft play ("ah that boy looks upset doesn't he? It's difficult not being able to explain why youre upset. But at least he's not hurting anyone, it's really important. Well done that boy.") And it will sink in.

I think maybe you were hoping for responses on this thread to say either 1. It's normal, don't worry about it, or 2. It's very abnormal, you need to get professional help.

But most likely it's in the middle of those two extremes. It's fairly normal but that doesn't mean you shouldn't work on it

When he's in a calm mood back at home after nursery, you can broach it. "Teacher says you got upset today, is that right? Do you want to talk about it? [If he kicks off, wait till later]. Teacher says when you got upset you bit your friend. I'm sure you felt bad about it afterwards because that would have really hurt her." Calm, conversational tone

@M08my i have and have had the Teeth Are Not For Biting book which I’ve read with him. But it isn’t a pre planned sort of situation. As a rule, it happens infrequently now and is when he’s often a bit tired or grumpy anyway. I don’t think at this stage he yet has the maturity to pause and consider the wise words his mother spoke

Of course, he will, and it’s always good to speak with our children, and certainly by age three I think that message will have sunk in.

In terms of responses I was ‘hoping’ for, none, really, I was genuinely wondering where on the spectrum of normal we fell. But the thing is (and this isn’t meant horribly, at all, it’s purely an observation) just because someone has responded here doesn’t make them right. We’ve had a range of responses and quite a few people have fixated on hiring not language. What they don’t seem to realise is I’ve included that info because the two are interlinked.

I don’t think at this stage he yet has the maturity to pause and consider the wise words his mother spoke

I just think that's where we disagree :) and I think that's what @1AngelicFruitCake meant when she said she can tell some kids haven't been spoken to properly by their parents. I think you'd be amazed how much a 2yo understands, even if semi non verbal

Thinking of the kids at work, many are not saying much at all by 2 years old. Maybe just a handful of words. Your son sounds fine. Nurseries are all about 'next steps' and hot on flagging up potential problems but in my opinion, it goes too far the other way at times and causes undue anxiety.

My nephew didn't say a word. Literally. Until he was three. He has no difficulties at all. It's a statistical sample of one, so don't ignore it if you are worried in yourself. Children dev diff aspects at diff times.

All that said, you can address the more behavioural aspects now. My dad was a biter, so I'm not sitting in judgement.

If he has had a perforated eardrum I would ask for a referral to an ENT. Tell the GP he is behind in speech. He may need grommets.

Understanding, yes, able to retain that information for several hours and use it in a moment of heatedness - no.

He is already under an ENT, thank you

Tell the GP he is behind in speech. he doesn’t appear to be behind in speech, though. I suppose this is the issue: what’s normal in one isn’t in another.

OK, sounds like there's nothing you can do then! Let's hope it gets better by itself!

Oceanwarmedbythesun · Yesterday 07:38
DS turned two in December and he does struggle with social situations. He will sometimes push and bite. Nursery tell me when this happens as they should, and they commented that he isn’t very verbal. I thought he was about average and now I’m worried.

He has a lot of words - well over a hundred, but he isn’t asking questions or using sentences much, I do know some of his friends are saying quite complex things like over there mummy and so on.

I am just wondering if it’s anything to be concerned about

So, I’ve bolded some of the above because I think the discussion has gone off course a bit which is a shame. I think a small minority of posters are wanting to suggest or imply that my parenting is the reason that my toddler occasionally bites, although everything that is online and in books says otherwise (and indeed at nursery.)

I think that language development is probably the most important skill we can give children, and children should be regularly interacted with and exposed to different types of speech. Nursery rhymes, chatting, reading books, games like I Spy and so on - they are all ways of bringing language on.

When a child has language, they will usually grow out of physical behaviours. If they don’t, then absolutely, a parent should be firmly letting them know it is not acceptable. So my questions are very specifically related to language and I’ve had a full range of responses, from immediately contacting SALT for speech therapy (which I’m not going to do) to not worrying at all (which I’m also not going to do, because we can’t!)

I'm scrolling back and I can't find anyone blaming your parenting - I certainly wasn't! Making suggestions for things you can do, to help him develop speech and also to help him understand its wrong to hurt people, isn't blaming you.

For example, my DD had a lot of wee accidents when she was first learning to potty train, and that is normal, and not my or dh's fault, but we still implemented strategies to help her with it. If someone had given me advice for working on it, I wouldn't have interpreted that as criticism.

The only thing I was critical of you about, for my part, was a rude response to a PP who said she's a nursery worker and (I thought) had good advice

Shocked I work in a nursery? Your language there indicates how you see early years workers!
Im a teacher, have taught from 5-8 for many years, currently ‘teach’ nursery so they are 3-4.

I’ve gone back through my comments and can’t work out why I’ve been offensive?!

I’m simply explaining that 2 year olds are much more capable than parents can give them credit for. My daughter tried to bite someone when she was just turned 2 and at Nursery. I spoke with her in front of the Nursery staff so she could see Mummy finds out about Nursery and could see us working as a team. I used language appropriate for her but I expected her to understand because I’d talked like that with her from a young age. A week or two later she was bitten when I visited a friend. The look of shock and pain on her face made me feel sick to my stomach. That’s why I’m trying to get you to think of those other children who are being bitten.

Ive spoken with hundreds of parents over the years. Many react like you are doing, defensive, scoffing at anyone who suggests their child could understand more with regular talking to them and explaining things. They seem almost bewildered when their child in Nursery (in Reception in September) is expected to behave appropriately and be able to talk about their behaviour. Lots of ‘they can’t do that they’re little’.

Covid has really shone a light on how little actual talking parents do at an appropriate level. It’s not having desires of a genius for a child but talking with the child as they grow up, helping them to understand their behaviour, even on a basic level.

Thank you 😊 I have a lot of experience working with young children and was only trying to offer a perspective on it. Im used to parents reacting like this! It’s hard because they feel like their parenting is being criticised, when it’s about helping the child. I’m an experienced teacher but I welcome any advice own child’s younger, less experience than me teacher has got to offer because other perspectives are helpful.

Final response! Thank you MO8my😊

OP I wasn’t suggesting you dramatically point out a child in front of loads of parents. My children were in nursery pre-covid so I forgot you wouldn’t be allowed to go into the room, bend down and have a quick chat. Just don’t underestimate what your 2 year old can understand! Work on talking in an age appropriate way to him as a poster above has said, as things arise because he won’t suddenly get it at 3 if you don’t.

In my experience private day nurseries are reluctant to comment too much on areas a child is struggling with as they’re under pressure from management who want the parents onside. The fact they’ve brought this up means it’s potentially an issue.

All I would say is that whilst biting might be ‘normal’ or a stage some children go through, it doesn’t mean you can’t tackle it. Back Nursery up by talking about it, playing with toys and making one toy bite another and saying ‘Ow! That hurts! We don’t bite!’ Etc.

Finally, yes I could have just advised get a speech and language referral but they take a while and you need ideas for now.

So, I’ve bolded some of the above because I think the discussion has gone off course a bit which is a shame. I think a small minority of posters are wanting to suggest or imply that my parenting is the reason that my toddler occasionally bites, although everything that is online and in books says otherwise (and indeed at nursery.)

It’s easier for you to think that then try and consider advice that’s being given to you. No one has blamed your parenting, more offered you ideas on how to improve things. You sound like you talk to your child a lot and that’s so important but now is the time to engage your child in conversation, helping them to understand how others feel, helping them to take part in early conversations, expecting lots from them. Good luck.

@1AngelicFruitCake I have so much time and respect for DS nursery workers, I know they wouldn’t dream of asking me to be shocked and disapproving when picking him up and pointing out the children he hurt and shaming him. There is no way at all that would be thought of as even slightly appropriate. I don’t think you have been offensive, I was just genuinely taken aback that this would be thought of as good advice.

It is very interesting that the thread is really about communication, and that you and others really can’t seem to see how you heavily infer without saying outright that parenting is lacking. Comments such as ‘many react like you’ and ‘that’s why I’m trying to get you to think of those children who are being bitten’ (including my own child) ‘I expected her to understand because I’d talked to her like that from a young age’ and ‘Covid had really shone a light on how little actual talking parents do’ are absolutely loaded with inferred criticism, and it’s horrible to read.

If parents feel like their parenting is being criticised and you’re used to parents reacting like this, it is possible that in itself is quite telling. To be honest, I am finding the endless responses from you and some others really unhelpful, you work with 3-4 years olds, between a year and 24 months older than my boy. There is a huge difference at this age. It is like me scoffing because a nine month old isn’t walking yet or telling the parent of an eleven month old his poor communication is because of their poor parenting. I really would prefer to leave the thread there, if you don’t mind.

What you’ve taken from my suggestion and what I actually suggested are two different things. Myself and the other poster have suggested subtle ways of talking to your child that’s appropriate to a 2 year old. I suggested having high expectations of what he can understand. I’ve also given examples of what you could say. It’s a shame that you think I’m focused on the biting when I’m giving advice that will help with his communication and your approach to it. That isn’t to criticise your parenting but to offer a different viewpoint.

You found me mentioning the children who’d been bitten to be unnecessary but at one point you said it’s worse for you than their parents!

The fact you’ve used the term ‘scoffing’ indicates you are seeing advice as negative, as if I’m looking down on you somehow. Ofcourse my class are older than your son but I’m not offering advice for 3-4 year olds, im talking about 2 year olds. You clearly feel your son doesn’t understand, you don’t want to discuss how you could change your approach so yes, leave it there.

@1AngelicFruitCake we’re going round in circles here.

Do you believe a two year old is going to understand a parent talking to them about something that happened hours ago? Because they won’t. It isn’t about understanding , it’s about having that conversation when it happens and since I’m not there when it does I trust nursery to deal appropriately with it.

That’s why i was suggesting a quick chat at Nursery. I also think it depends on the 2 year old. I think talking at appropriate opportunities throughout a normal day about feelings, being kind etc is helpful.

Good luck with it all.