apparently i have unrealistic expectations.....

[pukkapatch]

i think a nt four year old should be able to dress themselves.
i think an not six year old shoule be able to get himself a breakfast of cereal an dcold milk. and shower by himself
i think an nt four year old should be able to deal with school, assuming no bullying taking place.
i think a nt ten year old should be able to make sandwichs and feed himself and younger siblings as needed. same ten year old should be able to make tea/coffee. cook pizza, wash dishes, iron own t shirts, etc. however i know that to expect same child to keep room clean is asking to much.

so why am i constantly being told that its ok that five year olds cant dress themselves. eat their own foor. go to school. sit and listne to a teacher. know what to do with a pen pencil book? do i have very off the wall expectations?

oops read that as nt six year old.

I think the ironing may be a bit much, but agree with the rest.

in a word "yes" you have off the wall expectations

well, tbh, i do his ironing, when it gets done. but i expect him to be able tod o the task should the need arise.
actually, with all the ten year old stuff, i just expect him to have the skills to do the stuff. he doesnt usually do it.

why ar my expectations off th ewall? my youngest chid isnt yet five, she has been dressing herself since she was 2.5. even if htat is young, a four year old should be able to pull on trousers and a tshirt?
as for sittingand listening. most one year olds will do so, if you find them something interesting enough. so why cant five year olds listen to the teacher? have they devolved in those four years?

because sitting down for a few minutes as a one year old, and sitting in the classroom actually concentrating and learning are two totally different things.

Some children develop much quicker than others - so just because one child learned how to dress themselves at 2.5 doesn't mean that the next one will.

In short (without going into all the points). Different children develop different skills at different times. To compare them with each other/other children doesn't get anywhere.

I onlyhave xperience with a four year old and younger. Four year old dresses herself every day for school.

faq, i agree with you totally. they do develop at different times. i have three kids, and can testify to that.
however, i still think a four year old should be able to dress themselves. and i think the same four year old should be able to sit still fo r short periods of itme. part of the skill in teaching young kids is getting them to solidify these social skills they will need to get through the school system. and parents refusing to accept that their child needs tobe able to sit still for long enough to get instructions doesnt help the teachers, the school, or the child.

i think the amount of time kidsare expected to sit and listen may ned to be loked at - but certainly i agree that the subject matter is essential to keeping interst.

i think that a lot of it is a poor excuse for crap parenting that has leaked into the very heart of he education sytem

all th ekids in a reception class wont be concentratingon instructions fo rat ask at one time. but if htey are sitting still, then the majority will get th instructions whatever, the first time round, and the teacher will be able to explain to theones who werent concentrting, listening learning then.
but if these kids are running orund the classroom, shouting, then nne of the kids will learn.
my eldest cant ssit still or concentrate. but he knows hehas to. which is why he usually doesnt understand until the teacher comes andexplains to him in small group situations. but, he wont disrupt the class. iysim. and i think this is a skill that they need to learn in reception.

gosh if I compare my DS1 when he was 4, and DS2 (who is currently 4) in terms of being able to sit still and listen.........DS1 was MILES ahead.

I often go into assemblies at the local infant school (about once a month). It's amazing watching the Reception children.

First term they're almost all sitting wriggling, whispering to each other.

Second term a few always sit beautifully and quietly, with some others (often the youngest in the year from what I know) still wriggly (but usually have managed to learn to sit quietly by this stage).

Third term - most of them have "got" it.

Into Yr1 the following school year and apart from one or 2 they're all "perfect".

yes custy, keeping things interesting is also part of th eskill of the teacher. but the parent also needs toimpress on the child that thye need to at least try and sit still.

Pukka - Have you a disorder in terms of spelling? I am finding it difficult to interpret your posts.

LOL Pukka - I could sit and tell DS2 (4) to sit down and be still until I'm blue in the face.........but right now he's just not mature enough to be able to do it at the times I want him to (can when he feels like it LOL).

Actually thinking about it DS2 was a complete and utter shock he's just so.........well, ermm different from his older brother. Definitely fits the "stereotype" of a little boy

And I'm presuming if this 4yr old in question is already in reception he's one of the younger children in the year? In which case not at all unusual for such "skills" to come later in the term.

tabitha, its not a disorder of spelling, but of typing, andnot bothering to check posts before i post them.
faq, you are agreeing with me. that s no fun. i have just been a bit annoyed about the number of posts on mn recently saying that its ok that children dont do this yet because they are just little, and they dont start school till seven in other countries.
children may be little, but they are NOT stupid. and can learn anything, if they are encouraged to do so. the little boy in ds's class willnever learn how to be anything but an insensitive clod, bully, etc, because of the way his mother reasctsto everythign that happens around him, and the scholl reacts to her bullying. iyswim.
and ds may wet the bed on a regular basis, but he knows how to put thewashing machine on with all his wet things and shower by himself. let alone et dressed himself.

am I??? (agreeing with you?)......

Tabitha hasn't met cod?

My 6 year old would not shower himself properly and I towel him dry after his bath. This is because he either just doesn't get it or because he's an only child and has never had to learn. I suspect the former. He doesn't have much of an independent streak. Does this horrify you?

I'm NT, I ironed from the age of 8.

Hell, my dad and his siblings were working from them.

Not saying it was right or wrong, just that they were really poor and it was WWII and people worked from then.

My four-year-old is not NT, but she does still do a lot on her own or with limited help.

I generally avoid posts I don't understand. I only have one dd (13months) she doesn't walk yet and am getting harassed about why. If your thread is in the same vein then I understand!

not at all peaches, only children learn different skills from those who are part of a larger brood. ds1 was 4.3 when ds2 arrived, so he was an only child for a long time, an di oculd see hwo he was different to those with similar aged sibings.

it would horrify me if you barged itno school and demanded the shcool pay for extra staff to be around to helpyour child do this because you felt he was too young to do this. ie. it would be the parents behaviour that horrified me , rahter than the childs. hmm, i guess that is what i was saying all along. ...

yes tabitha, havent you had a run in with cod yet? my typing is pure english compared with hers.

I am not British from birth. But on the whole, I find that Brits and Americans shelter their kids more than other do.

No, not everyone.

But I grew up in a Latin American culture where kids are assigned chores from as soon as.

And it's not seen as cruel or punishment, but a good thing, it's part of being a family and a unit and a community.

Luckily, my husband sees this as such, and we show our girls that we're a family who gets things done together.

dont listen to anyone who thinks a 13 month old should be walking. even an 18 month old who doesnt walk is well within the normal spectrum. your dd will get up and walk when she isgood and ready.

expat, that's the attitude i was brought up with as well. although it seems to be a dieing one now.

My dd1 was 2 when she walked.

But no one batted an eyelid in either of our families.

People are people.

She's a helpful, thoughtful soul at 4.6.

And we praise her for that daily.

Thanks Pukka - I keep saying that too, she is probably just lazy like her dad!

I agree - we expect the DS's to be part of the family. BUT we have to look at what they're capable of. We don't think "oh they're 4yrs old they should be able to x,y,z". We think "what can they do to help that they can manage"