Baby seems sad after first night of sleep training - is this normal?

[Sadness89]

Please no hate. I was previously a strong believer in no sleep training, an advocate for cosleeping and so on but neither me or my baby were sleeping as we constantly disturbed each other (waking every 10 mins - 1.5 hours) and he was becoming increasingly unsettled trying to get him to sleep each night. I haven’t slept more than a 1.5 hour stretch at a time in 8 months. Cosleeping would be great if everyone slept, but we weren’t. As a result, I have PND and I feel like a shell of the person I used to be. I initially tried some gentle sleep training but he resisted everything and it just felt like controlled crying but my presence made him more angry, so we thought we’d try controlled crying as a last resort.

First night he cried on and off for 50 mins before falling asleep (I checked in and comforted regularly). He then woke after 30 mins and cried on and off for another 40 minutes with pauses for check ins/soothing. A lot of the crying was his tired frustrated cry, as opposed to “help me” cry. His crying generally got worse everytime I checked in on him. Following the initial wake, he still woke frequently as normal but was able to self settle for some of them. I also fed him for some of them and he quickly put himself back to sleep after. He’s never been able to put himself to sleep before, not even when he was a newborn.

This morning he seems really withdrawn and sad. Not his usual smiley self 😔 the guilt is unreal. It could just be that he’s tired as he didn’t get quite as much sleep as he usually would (cumulative hours) but I’m scared I’ve traumatised him and that he doesn’t love me anymore. When he woke for the day, he just laid in the crib silently playing with his hands 😔

Does anyone have any positive experiences to share where same thing happened and babe is now happy and sleeping well? Also all the stories I read of CC, baby miraculously started sleeping longer immediately but he still woke up a lot - is this normal?

On one hand I want to give in already, but then I also don’t want last night to have been for nothing and I want to be a happy Mama for my baby. He’s not currently getting the best of me 😞

Sounds completely normal, he is just adjusting and probably tired. You are doing something for him..giving him a uninterrupted nights sleep for the next x years and a happier healthier Mum. Keep going, you have got this.

I think this is your guilt tainting your perception. Your baby is fine, maybe a little tired. Ime cc takes a few days to result in self settling and more sleep.

Fwiw I did cc with both of mine. W ds1 we had 4 nights of howling and then he slept through. W ds2 we got less night waking but still some til he was 4!

Both are terns now and show no signs of trauma or insecure attachment of not loving me.

Ultimately though you have to be clear what will make you the better mother for your baby. For me that was not being broken by lack of sleep.

Yes, totally normal. He's upset that his version of normal is changing. My son was very withdrawn on day 2: it was heartbreaking.

Happy to report that it was a very temporary measure. He's now 18 mo and totally happy to be in bed alone. He also sleeps beautifully after spending a substantial period waking hourly.

I personally disagree with sleep training

I’m truly not saying this to be mean

Of course it is completely normal for a baby/toddler/child to be upset after being ignored by its parents when it’s sad. What else would you expect? A happy child? A babies emotional needs are as equally important as any physical need and when they’re not being met they’re sad. That’s how humans are.

there’s a million other ways to deal with sleep (or lack of) that doesn’t involve any sleep training or CIO. There’s a group on fb called the beyond sleep training project. Doesn’t involve anything like sleep training Highly recommend with lots of support.

He’s not upset that his version of normal is changing. What rubbish got you to repeat that? He’s upset because his mother is ignoring him. Simple as that

Maybe you should read the OP again carefully. His mum is not ignoring him, she checked on him and comforted him regularly . What she's not doing is providing his sleep cues for him, she's letting him develop his own. This is a kindness, not just to herself but to her baby also. How would you like to be dependent on someone else to help you get to sleep when you half wake throughout the night?

Ignore the snotty comments (you expressly asked NOT to have hate comments, so the fact they can't help themselves and put them anyway just shows their stupidity).
Don't worry OP. All changes feel strange at first, and you are probably overthinking your kid's reactions due to the upheaval you are feeling. but you know you are doing this for his good, to help him feel secure sleeping at night and guaranteeing that both he ask you as a parent get some well needed rest.

Dm guilt is real. Sleep exhaustion is also. After 3 nights my 9 month old dc slept through. I was on my knees. Sleep is life changing for your whole household op. Hang on - you are doing great!

One of mine became more and more unsettled after sleep training. He became really clingy in the day even after we had abandoned the CC. Once he was back to his normal self we sleep trained using the stay and support approach and even though he still cried at night he wasn't sad the next day so for us it was a much better method.

I really regret ever trying CC.

I did the exact same DD is now 15 months and we have the odd unsettled night but things are much better op I was against it but someone said to me we have to teach our babies everything else why do we expect them to learn to self soothe without help it's probably just tiredness op

Wouldn't you be sad if you were left crying yourself to sleep?
Babies are human too.

Of course it is completely normal for a baby/toddler/child to be upset after being ignored by its parents when it’s sad. What else would you expect? A happy child? A babies emotional needs are as equally important as any physical need and when they’re not being met they’re sad. That’s how humans are.

This.

Imagine if you husband just ignored you when you were crying. Would you be happy the next day?

@TheLunchLady if you were to wake your dh every couple of hours night after night he'd probably divorce you. Try it for a few months and report back.

I think it's your PND making you feel extra guilty, are you getting any help with that from your GP?

@Sadness89 As a result, I have PND and I feel like a shell of the person I used to be

Clearly what has gone on before isn't working for either of you. You have not abandoned your child, he knows you are there and he has managed to sleep. He is no doubt over tired but it will be worth it in the end so that you can function as a human and you will have a baby who sleeps.

Both of my nephews had sleep training as my sister was working full time and was exhausted. My BIL worked shifts and his job required him to work away so it was left to her a lot. My nephews are now adults, completely lovely, well adjusted adults and were as children too.

For you it is early days, you are just teaching him a new way to sleep so it will take a couple of days. He is fine, he is loved, he is warm in his bed he is just getting used to the new way of going to sleep. Babies communicate by crying, as you have said it was a frustrated cry not a help me cry. They cry for everything, for food, for being too cold, for needing a nappy change. He will be fine. You will be fine too when you have slept.

Let us remember that MN is meant to be a place of support and this Mother has PND due to lack of sleep. She is asking for reassurance from people who have undertaken sleep training.

"giving him a uninterrupted nights sleep for the next x years"

🙄 no you give yourself that, babies still wake

"When the researchers compared sleep diaries, they found that parents who had sleep-trained thought their babies woke less at night and slept for longer periods. But when they analysed the sleep-wake patterns as shown through actigraphy, they found something else: the sleep-trained infants were waking up just as often as the ones in the control group. "At six weeks, there was no difference between the intervention and control groups for mean change in actigraphic wakes or long wake episodes," they wrote.

In other words, parents who sleep-trained their babies thought their babies were waking less. But, according to the objective sleep measure, the infants were waking just as often – they just weren't waking up their parents."

"The actigraphy did find that sleep training improved one measure of the babies' sleep: their longest sleep period. That was an improvement of 8.5%, with sleep-trained infants sleeping a 204-minute stretch compared to 188 minutes for the other babies."

www.bbc.com/future/article/20220322-how-sleep-training-affects-babies

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Anyway, DD woke all the time till 2.5, eventually we figured out at least some out the causes, nuerodivergence (ASD/ADHD possibly), really high levels of anxiety, sensory problems, and mouth breathing in her sleep. Ignoring her would have fixed any of them and probably just made it worse but time has helped. Of course we had no idea of these things when she was 8 months old when we also tried sleep training but lasted a an hour or so max.

See if anything flags here, waking every 10 mins is not normal.
evolutionaryparenting.com/test/bitss/

Also this is a really shit time for sleep anyway so bad just gets worse
Https://sarahockwell-smith.com/2015/11/18/what-the-heck-goes-wrong-sleep-wise-at-8-10-months/

I done this with my first born and he was unsettled for the first few days then he slept from 7pm through to 6am.

Don't worry OP you're doing great 😊

How old? Babies generally need their parents to sleep and to feel safe. If he's 10 months then maybe it's not for him yet. However if he's 5 then maybe he's just not able to soothe? Though the part of the brain that controls fear doesn't really develop till they're about 12 so needing parents is quite normal till that age

I mean doesn't develop so that they don't need to fear everything. It actually ramps up a lot around the age of 10! So if you find your child at that she suddenly frightened of everything it's actually very normal!

@olderthanyouthink it is normal for both children and adults to wake repeatedly throughout the night. The point is not that you - or your baby- wake up. It's whether you can get yourself back to sleep without getting stressed and upset. Babies who can't do that are not happy babies, that's why they cry.

There are strong views on this, understandably, and I don't often tell people that I did this. I did this for all the reasons you set out. My daughter slept through on the third night. She continued to sleep through for years. However it wasn't the end of our sleep difficulties as issues arose again when she was 4yo until 5yo. She's 8 now. I think she's got high needs when it comes to sleep, highly dependent on me, lower than average actual sleep needs, sleep is not something that comes easy to her and maybe it never will. I do feel guilt about doing cry it out. However, I don't regret it because I honestly feel I had no other choice. If I had continued 'gentle' methods they wouldn't have worked for her personality. And I couldn't suck it up any more. That's my honest opinion.

@Untitledsquatboulder of course everyone wakes a bit but every 10-90mins is excessive