Burping hell

[avajohnson75]

Long story short, I am struggling to burp my baby and she is in pain and I am insane.

Short story long: From birth I have been asking the same things to everyone I know and every doctor that will spare me an ear and so far, everyone says "That's normal." Then they give me advice that shows they don't understand the problem. Google is almost as bad. Asking about the things that are causing me troubles results in Google "correcting" me into more common problems. At this point I am starting to feel really insane and as much as I need a solution, it would probably help me just as much of I could just find someone that actually understands the words coming out of my mouth. Even just to tell me that I'm wrong about it all and it is actually normal, at least then I would feel less alone.

My lovely little girl (almost 4 months) is great. She has a wonderful smile and she is very well behaved for the most part. I don't want it to sound otherwise, but I need to solve a problem and I am not grateful or happy about the problem and I am frustrated by her actions when it comes to burping.

The problem is that she will swallow a lot of air and it takes a long time to burp her. As much as an hour and a half after each meal. She will also strain and cry while burping sometimes and force out a lot of milk.

The advice I normally get it to just not burp her so much. This is really bad advice, that a lot of doctors tell me, because she will spit up a lot of food and need to be fed sooner, she will be uncomfortable from this and cry and then she will also scream for hours because of gas pains. If I was to give myself advice back in time it would be to resolve myself to never let a single burp sit in her belly (and maybe tell the doctors how dumb that is and how much stress it has caused me). Every burp I miss, we are both punished for, harshly.

Keep her upright and tilt her bed is another annoying one. This works fine for a few hours where she is happy and then the lower gas pains start. It seems to be some cruel torture method made for a little baby. Maybe if I wasn't worried about her pain this could be a good trick.

Hold her in X position. I like this advice, but I've run out. I have tried them all, even the ones that you shouldn't do. They all work great, but she has a lot of air and it takes time. My advice is to spend five minutes on the first method and decreasing amounts of time on each next method with small breaks of play time between. It seems to work best that the positions are rotated and she has time to focus on other things. It normally keeps my time under an hour, sometimes as little as half an hour. I have been told many times that anything over 5 minutes is too much, but that is clearly wrong.

Rub her belly and cycle her legs is helpful when everything else fails and the air goes lower. This is kind of cleanup advice to help fix the fallout after I miss burps.

Burp between feedings. I have mixed results with this. If she eats too little she will freak out and panic when getting burped and cry enough that she will end up gulping down air when she gets back to feeding. Too much food at once will put any gas bubbles so far down her stomach that it can take very long to get them out and cause her a lot of discomfort. Right now I'm pretty carefully managing food so that she eats about every two hours and fifteen minutes (average). When it's bad, I don't really have time to care for myself between feedings. Just burp and feed in a cycle and hope and pray the Gods of gas take pity on me sooner rather than later.

We are doing mixed bottle and breastfeeding unfortunately. I hate the formula so much. She swallows twice as much air from the bottle. I feel like those that must do formula are really handicapped as parents. It's really quite sad and I wish it wasn't like this. I've tried a lot of positions and tricks to hold the bottle "correctly" and different kinds of bottles. I think I have it down pretty well now. Inexpensive simple bottles without airflow pipes and junk are best, me and her control the flow better by breaking the seal. Upright and with the nipple full of formula, but not all the way is best. I think if there is room for improvement, it's not by much.

The problems start when she has a gas bubble in her belly and is also hungry. Then she will eat, but frantically and swallow a lot of air. This results in longer burp times and maybe not getting them all out in time for the need feeding. If I take too long burping her when she is hungry, she will be frantic and swallow a lot of air. If I notice she is eating oddly because of a gas bubble and stop her to burp her she will normally cry and then also when she returns to the bottle, if she isn't done burping, she will cry.

Many times now I will sit her down for feeding and once she realizes, she will scream like crazy until properly burped. Just having food near her mouth will send her into a panic. This looks nearly the same as the panic she can get into when she is hungry, and she can get very hungry after a burp. It's a vicious cycle where success can be razor thin, or even impossible. Sometimes she refuses to give up the bottle, but she also thrashes around while eating. I know it's because she needs to burp and also she will get more air in her because of thrashing, but if I take it away she will cry and get more air in her before returning to do the same. When that happens I know I'm out of luck.

Then there's sleeping. Another compounding problem to add to the mix. If she has a gas bubble she will sleep soundly anyway. This sleep lasts 5 to 15 minutes. Then she will wake up, look panicked and then spit up a lot all over herself and her bed. The best trick is to watch over her for a while while she is sleeping so that I can be ready and burp her IMMEDIATELY before I have to change her and wash her clothes and bed. You can imagine how much this messes up her sleeping and mine for her to fully wake up over and over for each burp maybe so long that she will get hungry again. I'll tell you that a tried baby isn't as agreeable and makes everything else a little harder, but especially getting her to actually burp. What about now, is it safe for me to rest now?

The biggest problem now is that often, normally in the evenings, she will get more and more annoyed with burping. I think she is most uncomfortable with having the gas in her and not the actual burping or spitting up. Often when I lift her she will stiffen up her entire body. I am convinced she is doing this as a way to stretch out her stomach to either because it feels better or as a way to force air out. When she is in this "mad with burps" mode she will burp and then after the burp she will flex harder and spit up. This happens right after the burp is done and if my reflexes are lightning quick I can interrupt it and she will be only slightly annoyed. If I am not quick she will scream and cry in pain as she spits up.

I've skipped a lot of my precious self care time to write this long stupid rambling post because this is the straw that breaks my back. I'm trying to calm her and I can't because it's honestly very stressful and frustrating to me when I know she is about to do it. I pick her up and she will go stiff and I know I'm in for a shity ride, she can probably pick up on this so it isn't helping her relax, but I'm at the end of my rope when it comes to this. I can't help but wonder why she is acting like this and making so many problems for us. So I'm trying to Google "crying after burping" and Google will absolutely not let me search for crying that results from burping. Have I lost it? Is my sense of time backwards? Does no one else experience this? Did I actually type in the wrong thing? Do other people mean "after" when they talk about burp problems and never say the word after and I am just unable to decipher the hidden code of "after" when everyone keeps directing me to colic and GER and giving me information about, but never the information that explains how it happens as a result of burping and not a cause. Is it just a long line of coincidences that cause her to happen to cry about some random unrelated thing right after a burp?

Help me please.

I think you're focusing too much on the burping.

Has she got reflux?

Are you ff or bf?

With DTs I used to stand up with them and bend down really slowly tipping them back up very slowly and sometimes got a burp out of them.

All their symptoms were reflux and improved with medication, the cot tilting you mentions, swirling not shaking the formula if ff, using slower or vari flow teats if ff and alternating, keeping upright at least 20 mins a feed.

Has she been checked for tongue tie? Preventing her from swallowing air in the first place would be ideal.

The good news is eventually babies don’t need to be burped because they do it themselves. So you could treat it as one of those “grit your teeth and get through it” parts of parenting, which is my preferred approach to the 0 to 18 years phase.

I know what you mean about Google only serving up the common problem. I would just stop googling – if you haven’t found the answer yet, step away from the frustration.

Burping definitely takes us longer than 5 minutes. DS will not feed until that burp is up so I’ve spent many hours with him on my shoulder like a parrot.

Finally have you looked into dairy allergies? Which could explain the feeding behaviour.

Infacol helps a lot with bringing up burps, give it before every feed

I speak as someone who has a DD who, at 4 months, would spend all day lying stiff on the floor, refusing to play/engage and making this constant, irritating straining type noise, because of how much air she swallowed (and thus it causing reflux).

Firstly I just want to pick up on part of the last bit where you say "I can't help but wonder why she is acting like this and making so many problems for us." Hopefully this is just a frustrated comment and isn't really how you're interpreting it, because she really isn't doing anything on purpose and it's extremely important in keeping your sanity to remember this. In fact, it's likely she's suffering too so she needs you to be calm and a place of comfort for her.

Have you ever had her oral function assessment (by a lactation consultant/tongue tie specialist qualified to perform a full assessment, I mean, not just a midwife taking a quick look in her mouth or seeing how she latches onto a finger)? The best method of cure in this scenario is prevention - getting to the bottom of why she's taking in so much air, and potentially the answer is her latch. It could be that she also has a high palette which will make things more difficult.

As for how to get her to burp, if she's anything like my DD, then there was no answer I hate to say. I tried everything I could find on forums, YouTube, you name it and half the time we got nothing at all out. Things naturally got a bit easier when she started sitting at 5 months, and easier again now she's crawling and moving around at 9 months, but she still takes air in and it still causes her discomfort/lower wind at night.

It's not going to be what you want to hear and hopefully someone else comes along with some magic answer, but if you have a difficult to wind baby, there is only so much you can do. It will get better though.

Have you tried gripe water?

Not sure if this will help but I've found my baby (5 months) burps so much during tummy time , even if it's been an hour since he's been fed. Could be worth a try? He lets our massive belches we didn't even know were in there!!

MaverickGooseGoose
See "not burp her so much" In my post. Basically if I am not on top of it we both pay the price. I can even see it in her eyes sometimes that she is sad and unhappy until I lift her up and burp her. Then she is happy again.
Mixed feeding as I said. Not by choice.
Standing her for burping is a pretty great tip, unfortunately she is often too stiff for this.

bussteward
No. I'm learning about tongue tie today. I will look into it more. Thanks.
I was gritting my teeth and waiting for 3 months because they said it should start getting easier. It's been getting harder. I don't know if I can just get though this or not. My body is ready to give out. I haven't looked into allergies. Maybe I'm wrong, but once she is finished burping and (sometimes) starts hiccuping, there will be no more burps and she will be "safe" and happy until the next feeding. Could allergies cause burps only directly after feeding in that way?

pzyck
Maybe you are interpreting things weirdly if you think it's alright to not wonder why she is doing what she is doing. Honestly I worry about your level of empathy with a comment like that. Do you think that watching someone inflict pain on themselves should be viewed with joy or apathy? Of course I will want her to stop harming herself.
We did go to a breastfeeding specialist that gave us the "good to go". I am considering getting a second opinion though because... I have to do something and it wasn't like you said a "full assessment".

Amipreg1
I was told it was a gimmick. I can't find any reliable proff that it works at all.

Thanks to all the replies.

sunseaandme
That's one of the positions I rotate. Good excuse for tummy time, but she spits up so much in this position. I worry that sometimes it will cause more problems than it helps with the pressure on her belly, other time I wonder if she will cry when I remove the pressure.

You have a concern about my level of empathy because I'm encouraging you to be empathetic of your own child's suffering, for both her sake and yours?

You are aware that at 3-4 months old, your child barely has conscious control over her own limbs right? Your phrasing suggests she is purposely choosing to make herself uncomfortable, and to make your life difficult. If this isn't what you mean then you have an odd way of wording things, but if it is what you really believe then in answer to one of the questions in your OP, yes, you really have "lost it".

Is it likely she has a milk allergy? I say this as someone who completely understands the burping hell. Our baby (now 11 months) would hold on to burps like they were stuck to him like glue. He got hiccups a lot too. He was assessed for tongue tie by several people- doesn’t have one. We tried everything, every technique, every bottle, every size teat, gripe water etc. Feeding time became the thing that started off my postnatal depression because as soon as he would start to feed, he would then arch his back and scream until the burps came out but it was impossible to get them out.
anyway he has cmpa and once on the proper amino acid formula, things improved massively. He still had reflux as the formula is so thin but that also went completely once he was on solids (which he took to amazingly) and could sit unaided. If you were to look at him now you’d have no idea this baby struggled so much with feeding in the first 6 months of his life.

Sounds to me like you are saying you completely misinterpreted what I said and rather than asking about it, you jumped in with assumptions and judgement and now you want to put the blame on me. I am genuinely sorry if I'm a little tired after very little sleep and a baby screaming in my ear for hours and I did not go out of my way to explain what I did explain, but better. I can see it's not up to your high standards. Now I will politely ask you to leave me alone. I don't want you here. This isn't the time or place for whatever game you are playing. I wish you well, but I'm so far from being in the mood.

Thanks, I will look into it and I don't mean to doubt you, but if I get her into a good pattern and I get the burps and keep her happy and we'll rested, she will eat calmly, burp two or three times and be happy and comfortable for hours until the next feeding. I would think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that if she had an allergie, she would get uncomfortable at some point after the feeding and need burps and it wouldn't matter so much what mood she was in when feeding.

I understand what you mean. We did have a similar situation in that for night feeds, he would drink super calm because he was half asleep and would burp much easier and then be fine. He still had an allergy as we had to do a challenge and reintroduce standard formula to be sure and the difference when he went back to the standard formula was extremely noticeable.
I could never figure out why except it must be multi-factorial and a combination of things that made the difference between an ok feed and a terrible feed and his allergy was a factor in that.

I agree with PP about looking into tongue tie. My breastfed 4 month old was swallowing so much air when feeding and had symptoms of reflux and the usual online advice did not help at all.

The midwife, health visitor, GP and breastfeeding support worked all “checked” for tongue tie and said there wasn’t one. I still wasn’t convinced so paid to see a IBCLC who identified a posterior tongue tie that everyone else had missed, and we got it cut. Definitely worth looking into this. Sorry you’re having such a tough time, it really is so hard.

Sounds like cmpa to me.

Ok there is a lot there.

Have you been to a breastfeeding support group to see someone in person.

You say you're mixed feeding. How much of both? Are you doing full bottle or breast feeds or topping up?

I don't mean night feeding, she will be calm and happy for days, but one time she will be cranky from something, and things spiral out of control then it will be days of trouble. I mean it could always be multiple things and maybe I'm just not seeing things right, but wouldn't she have unpredictable, lower gas pains or some other trouble with getting it out if that was the case?

I know I might sound argumentative, but what you are saying is honestly gives me a lot of hope so I just want to be sure and learn what I can. Either way I will ask the doctor about it next time I take her in (hopefully soon). It's just better to come prepared to explain what I learned.

Get her checked for tongue tie and oral function. Swallowing lots of air is a sign things aren’t right which is why you’re needing to burp her so much.

Carmelle Gentle in London is very good but if you let us know where you are someone will likely know a good practitioner.

Oh I know you didn’t mean at night. I just meant there were situations for us like at night where things would be fine.
He also doesn’t have a relaxed temperament in general so it doesn’t take much to make him unhappy so that could be a factor too.
yeah so we did see other symptoms with the allergy like rash, explosive nappies and wind but that’s not always the case. Sometimes it can just be one symptom like reflux or even constipation is a symptom.

We saw a breastfeeding specialist that kind of glanced over and said 'I can see she is latching on so everything should be fine' or something like that. I expected most of this would blow over back then. She doesn't always latch on great and when she is uncomfortable she will pop on and off and spin her head around. She might cry while doing that. Stopping and burping her will get her back on track once I get all the burps out. Sometimes zero burps are needed after breastfeeding sometimes as much as 5, but it's always better than the bottle.

I have been feeding her 3-4oz after breastfeeding. At night feedings we can normally skip bottles and she does pretty well.

So does this burping hell happen only after top ups? 3-4oz is a lot for a top up. It's almost a full feed.

It could be that she's having too much top up or that the formula itself isn't agreeing with her.

You could think about swapping to have 1 or 2 bottles of 5oz a day and the rest breastfeeding. If she reacts after the bottles then consider either seeking a CMPA diagnosis or working with a lactation specialist to move towards EBF. As the milk is there, upping supply is quite straight forward.

My son has CMPA, fine over night when just having my milk. Fine after every breastfeed. Cried like hell and projectile vomited after every formula feed.

Porridgeislife
I was getting her to open her mouth and play with her tongue just a little bit ago. Everything looks fine to me, but she wouldn't move it around so much. Now I'm really thinking seriously about this. I will look into it.

I am pretty far from you, but I have a good doctor, thanks.

Pizzaandsushi
I'll look into it and ask about it. Thanks.

Our complete tongue tie was missed in hospital after birth, by the midwife visiting after birth and by 3 HVs. We needed an IBCLC certified lactation consultant who came home, diagnosed within 5 minutes. This was a complete tongue tie... you can also have a lip band tie. Or the combination. Normal doctors are almost never properly trained to diagnose this!

Our problems with reflux have improved enormously! And for us the bottle (expressed breast milk) was also more difficult than my nipples, more unrest and more air intake. Neverthless, breastfeeding always took long, she was tensing all the muscles in her body and balling fists and tensing her feet to try and get the milk out...

My first would not burp. I tried, NICU nurses and paed ward nurses tried, everyone tried. She would not burp. As such she was in constant discomfort with gas pains until about five months of age, at which point she finally figured out how to get air out of her stomach before it reached her intestines.

It was grim, OP. She writhed, she groaned, she farted all night long. I know your pain. Nothing helped but time, though.

My second wasn't great at burping either but she was somewhat better. When she burped well she was comfortable, not grizzly and slept well. When she didn't burp, the opposite.

We saw a breastfeeding specialist that kind of glanced over and said 'I can see she is latching on so everything should be fine' or something like that.

This is not a proper breastfeeding evaluation. Was this an "infant feeding specialist" midwife/health visitor (this often means that the bulk of their job is standard midwifery/health visiting, and they do a bit of extra BF support on the side), or was it somebody who supports solely breastfeeding day in day out, who has proper breastfeeding training e.g. an IBCLC or an NCT/ABM Breastfeeding Counsellor or La Leche League Leader?

WRT to the bottle feeds, I wonder if you've tried paced feeding - this is where you hold the baby semi upright and the bottle close to horizontal. It results in a lot of air in the teat so people often worry about this because you're always told air in the teat means the baby will take in air and that causes wind - but how it was explained to me is that this is actually a myth, what we think causes wind is fast feeding, and babies tend to take in milk much slower in this set up which means less overfeeding and less wind.

However I appreciate that everyone else is talking about taking in air in relation to tongue tie so it might be different if your baby does have tongue tie. Anyway, just in case you haven't come across that idea, I thought it was worth mentioning.