Sleep training experience

[Helena1993]

And I'm saying in advance. I don't want someone's opinion who hasn't sleep trained their child.

Does your baby/toddler/child have any behavioral or attachment issues since you've sleep trained?

When I change her diaper and she cries every time I do it. Does that show at 6/7 years of age? Does she feel like I ignored her needs and will suffer a lifetime of anxiety and bonding issues?

My baby just stops crying and smiles at me when I come in. She only wants me to be around. But I'm too tired to continue her game. She did this for 2 hours yesterday.

I drive every day and I'm becoming dangerouly inattentive.

We are trying to sleep train at the moment. Our DD is 18 months old, and we have avoided it until now through fear of lasting damage. But her sleep is getting worse and at times she wakes six times a night, or will wake and be up for 2-3 hours from 11pm. I am so exhausted and broken, we have to do something different. Being gentle and trying to get her to sleep just isn’t working, and if anything it’s getting worse. It’s bad for all of us. So we are doing it. This is night two. I hate it but we have to do it or we won’t survive.

I can’t help thinking all the people who scream don’t do it can’t have had a baby who just won’t sleep - or they didnt have jobs / other children to raise which meant you have to be able to sleep!

I've sleep trained both my daughters - same issue with them taking an eternity to go to sleep when cuddled started about 9/10 months. Took a couple of days and then they both settled themselves in their cot.

Eldest was a horrendous sleeper and would wake multiple times a night, and then wake up at 4am, if I had 3 hours sleep in one go that was a good night. Lots of shush, pat and then eventually gradual retreat fixed the early wakings. Everyone was happier, especially DD, once we'd fixed her sleep problem - not getting enough quality sleep was making us all grumpy, miserable and snappy. I was struggling at work, DH and I were arguing all the time, I put on weight from eating crap because I was too tired to make anything properly, and biggest thing - we were both rubbish parents during this period because we were so bloody tired.

DD2 is a much better sleeper overall despite having exactly the same routine, feeding schedule etc so I've concluded it's the luck of the draw what you get!

I’ve read some of what you suggested. Did you sleep train your DC? How can any issues that show up be apportioned to sleep training specifically? What issues? There are so many different factors in a child’s development. You could nurse your child to sleep every night but sit them in a highchair in front of the tv all day. My children were sleep trained and they have no issues as adults. At primary school DD was a model pupil, DS needed more structure and to know what the plan was for the day, struggling with any deviation but by the end of KS2 he didn’t have any issues at all and was like a different child to how he had been in KS1. Would sleep training be blamed adding to the guilt already felt as a working parent (and I only worked 3 days at the time) he saw drs, speech therapists and was under the SENCO. When he was discharged from the school dr she confirmed that there was nothing wrong with him. Some children have problems, some require a diagnosis and some children are just learning their way in the world in a slightly different way to their peers. That doesn’t mean that they need labelling as traumatised by being left to cry at nine months for a short period of time.

Ah yes, the lasting damage visible several years after the sleep training took place for an hour and a half in the first night and 40 mins the second night. 😂which resulted in the baby not crying when put to bed in the subsequent nights and also resulted in many, many nights slept through or maybe with only one wakening but oh yes it must be so damaging to actually sleep 😉

@mamasnetmum what kind of issues tend to become evident at 7-8 years? I read a few articles by the doctor you mentioned but they focused on the impact on the baby at the time of sleep training. I’d be interested to know what kind of issues appear so much later on. Or if you can point me to any relevant articles.

Sleep training was a last resort, and it didn’t work. It’s not a magical solution for every baby. Some babies are just far too strong willed.

@Sleepyhead82 your post resonates with me. We were going though such a song and dance of rocking sshhing nervously putting him down and creeping out if the room. One night I put DS down in his cot to get something from downstairs I was gone less than 5 mins. Came back he was asleep… I now put my baby down wide awake every night and honestly I have no clue how I would get him to sleep by helping him now 😂 seems ridiculous what we were doing every night really.. we never gave him the chance to settle himself and he was showing he wanted independence!

I sleep trained my twins. Best thing ever. They're secure in their routine (they've just turned 3 and will ask if it's nap time etc.) I know sleeping training is a contentious issue and highly emotive. I will only speak from experience that it was my saving grace and I wouldn't change it for the world.

I'll also add that the programme we followed was far more about the rhythm of their day, not solely focused on sleep. Essentially, if all of their needs (food, play, naps, milk etc.) are meet during the day then the nights should mean sleepy and contented babies.

OH my God I can't do this anymore. I'm OVER it.
Baby needs 2 hrs to fall asleep. Even with help of a dummy. Then sleeps maybe 3hrs? Maybe 4? Then needs a feed. Then sleeps for 40 mins. Then wakes up for the dummy. I put the dummy back in. Check the diaper. Nope. All good. I put her back in. Screaming continues and she wakes up every hour or so even with the dummy. And that's been my life so far.
I'm close to a mental breakdown. I have tinnitus. Heart palpitations. And heart burn from the stress and I'm getting really aggressive when she starts crying again. I would never harm her but good.. God.. I need to sleep train or I'll lose my mind. Call me evil. Call me whatever you want but I won't survive another week of this torture.

None at all. They are both confident, happy and settled. They love daycare and give me a cuddle and skip off happily. They also love and enjoy their sleep.

Go for it. No-one is judging you.
how old is she?
If you let her cry it out you need to stay consistent otherwise all work / tears is for nothing! You can 100% check and even pick her up but put her back awake in cot (often checking and picking up makes them more mad).

If she's under 7/8 months I would remove the dummy altogether (day time too so otherwise it is confusing), if older leave it in the cot but she needs to find it herself.

Good luck

You’re where I was, and your DD seems just like mine was. The only advice I have is what worked for me. Make sure baby is safe in her cot, can’t climb out or get stuck, has a dry nappy on, then leave a bottle of water in with her, close the door, and get yourself some earplugs. If she’s safe, it’s fine.

She will cry. That’s fine. It’s not lovely, but it’s fine. She won’t cry herself to death, but there’s now a non-zero chance that you might actually die from the effects of sleep deprivation on your day-to-day function. Seeing to your own needs is absolutely essential for you to be able to see to hers.

So. Switch your poor exhausted brain off for a few hours - please stop feeling guilty, motherhood shouldn’t = martyrdom. You can check your phone for alerts from the baby monitor when you wake up. She might surprise you with how quickly/well she adapts, she might not. But if she doesn’t, well, at least you’ll have had a decent chunk of sleep, so you’ll be better equipped to deal with trying again.

sending ❤️

I was where you are now. Do the sleep training. It's not just for you, it's for your daughters benefit too. I can't tell you how much more content my children were after sleep training. I didn't realise how much the sleep deprivation had been affecting them until I saw the difference.
My children are now 10 and 12, very securely attached, happy, confident children. They're thriving! And they certainly didn't have any emotional problems aged 7 or 8 because of it.

By the way, I'm sure you've thought of this but my daughter kept waking for her dummy at that age so I used to put about 10 dummies in her cot! She always found one.
But yes, definitely do the sleep training!

What are you looking for OP?

Permission/reassurance to sleep train? Just pick a method that sounds fine to you and try it. It doesn't cause attachment issues, this is nonsense. And I say that as somebody who has never sleep trained and probably never will. Attachment issues are not caused by one off things like sleep training, they are a picture of the general responsiveness to the child across the whole childhood. Neglect causes attachment issues, not sleep training as a one off within a full picture of a loving, responsive relationship.

Most of the criticism of sleep training from a more attachment parenting perspective is that it's not necessary or the "only" option (unlike what a lot of "experts" will claim), you don't have to do it if you don't want to, and pointing out that as an idea, it doesn't really match/mesh very well with a generally attachment-supportive parenting style, which is not the same thing as saying it causes attachment issues, though the internet seems a bit confused on this point (and any nuance in general, TBH)

Are you looking for a fight? You seem very defensive against anybody who does think it causes issues.

Gabor Mate is a quack BTW. Lots of unsubstantiated pseudoscience coming from him. Not saying he doesn't do any good work but some of the stuff he says is highly questionable.

What it is useful to know and I think never really gets talked about on either side is that children respond differently to sleep training. Some of them respond very quickly and cry very little. This seems to be the poster child for a positive sleep training experience, and there's no way this kind of experience is causing any harm. Some take a little longer to respond and cry a little bit more, but nothing extreme. A few weeks/up to an hour or so of crying. Probably distressing, although temporary. But some just don't respond at all, they get more and more distressed. Most people wouldn't continue in that case, but it's possible that continuing if your baby is like that could cause some kind of harm even if only short term.

But I think that might be part of what causes the polarisation? Pro sleep trainers thinking that the babies in the third category don't exist and they are really in the second one and the parents just needed to persist a bit longer, anti sleep trainers not really realising that the first category exists and imagining weeks of anguish before the baby sleeps/thinking all sleep training is like the horror stories of babies being left for hours in their own vomit or scenarios like Romanian orphanages, and being upset by that whether it causes lasting harm or not (and that kind of extreme probably would TBH).

I'm trying to make the best decision for my child so I'm asking for experience. Good or bad. I'm not defensive about it.. I think? But when someone says it causes attachment issues at 7 years and links a questionable website then that's a different story.

@Helena1993 none of the people commenting here with children over 7/8 have experienced any issues with their children. The poster hasn’t responded to any questions regarding the claim.
It might be difficult but it might not be. Good luck

@Helena1993 i hope you manage to do something that works for you and your baby. Many of us reach sleep training because we are broken and, as a pp said, it isn’t automatically the case that there is hours of screaming and neglect involved. I know I couldn’t have done it if there had been. I think her breakdown of the three ways children tend to respond is true and useful. It can’t be healthy for a baby’s night to be the way you describe - for either of you. I felt that about my eldest. It couldn’t have been good for her to have been awake every hour all night long for months and months. For what it’s worth to you mine are now about to turn 10, 7.5 and 3.5 and their sleep remains settled and solid and we have no evident issues. As I’m sure you know, changes and decisions about how to approach being a parent come pretty thick and fast as your children grow and change. In my view, a good night’s sleep makes everyone better able cope with it all.

Exactly our experience too. Actually far happier once getting enough sleep.

OK. Now I can add my own experience and I'll be completely honest:

We did 3 days of sleep training.
At first she went down quiet easily which surprised me. But woke up an hour later and couldn't settle. I fed her like 8oz before bed time so she couldn't be hungry.

Day 1:

It took about 40 minutes with regular check - ins.
2, 5, 10, 15...

I always made sure she knows I'm there.

It was really hard to listen to her but I knew I can't continue the way I did before.

So after that she magically slept 6 hrs and woke up again at 2am. And again took about 25-30 minutes.

Then slept until 7am. That's when I picked her up and fed her. She looked quite distressed and I was worried if I'm doing the right thing. It really wasn't easy. But after discussing it with my husband we decided to continue.

During the day she went down for her 2 naps so easily I couldn't believe it. Like 2 minutes of fussing? Not even crying.

Day 2:

No wake ups. At. All. 12hrs straight through.

Day 3:

1 wake up for 15 minutes.

In conclusion:

I honestly believe it's way more cruel to not teach a baby how to self soothe and have her wake up multiple times a night even if she doesn't need to for years even. Doesn't that stress out those poor babies who don't learn to shift to the next sleeping cycle. I really thought I was helping her when I have her the dummy. Constantly fed and rocked. But I wasn't.
Sometimes it's just time for some tough love.
She used to be very grumpy all day. Now she's happy and well rested. Yes. Day 1 was very rough for us. But I think it's paying off.
I can't believe i listened to those people who say it's neglect. It couldn't be further from the truth. We are teaching an important skill. And baby still cries in the morning to be picked up and fed...

I’m so happy that it’s working for you and your family. Sleep is so important for a growing child and for us as parents as the littlest things are magnified when we’re tired. Thank you for updating us.

I'm so happy to read this. It's what I keep telling people! It's not cruel, it's not neglect - it's beneficial for the parents and, most importantly, the babies. You can see how much happier they are after getting some decent sleep. It's the best and kindest thing I did for my children.
Enjoy the sleep OP!

"I honestly believe it's way more cruel to not teach a baby how to self soothe and have her wake up multiple times a night even if she doesn't need to for years even. Doesn't that stress out those poor babies who don't learn to shift to the next sleeping cycle."

So this was a goady thread.

What about "Isn't it great everyone can do what works for them"?

I don't think sleep training is cruel, but it's also not cruel to let them get there on their own. Why does it need to be that one is right and one is terribly awfully wrong??

Very glad it worked for you. Wish you'd kept the judgy part in your head.