Feeling guilty about shouting at daughter - bed time struggle

[Gem123J]

I got frustrated tonight and shouted at my daughter and I feel so, so guilty now. But also at the end of my tether and need some help/guidance on what to do.

Every single night our daughter (who is 5) is testing us at bed time. We always stick with the same routine; snacks about an hour before bed time (after a bath if it’s bath night), snack is either those small cucumbers, or a yoghurt, at this time we try and wind down, then brush hair, teeth, go to the toilet, lullaby and a book and then sleep. Then the demands begin: another lullaby, another story, she needs a drink (she has a drink by her bed), she asks what song she can sing, then asks again, wants a kiss and a cuddle, wants us to close her bed tent door, tuck her in, wants her trousers off if she’s too hot, wants this and that…
It’s been like this for a year or more. I’ve been fairly strict in the past and tell her to go to sleep that she’s had everything (lullaby, book, kiss and a cuddle), and everything else she can do herself as in get a drink, close her tent door, put a blanket over her. But my husband is soft and he was giving in to her demands. It’s gotten that bad now that she asks for another story and he started to read her another story, then she has been asking me for two lullabies before bed and I’ve been giving in, and it’s just gotten absolutely ridiculous and frustrating.

We do the bed time routine and she’s normally in bed by 8 but she doesn’t go to sleep until almost 9 or gone 9 o clock with all the demands. I’m 26 weeks pregnant and have had a difficult pregnancy. I wasn’t feeling well last night at bed time and so after 30-40 minutes of saying she wanted a drink, (I tell
her to have a sip of her drink then), what song can I sing, (whatever song you want please go to sleep), asking if it was the weekend, saying again she wanted a drink (after having already had a sip), said she had growing pains (I knew she didn’t because normally she’d cry), I told her it’s not good to lie, then she said she was hot, so I shouted from my bed that I wasn’t well and she needs to go to sleep.

It makes me feel so awful getting to that point but I’m just so fed up because it’s like she’s taking the piss out of us. So today I had a word with her and said please, please not to demand all sorts after bed again tonight please because she has everything she needs before bed and there’s no reason for her to be like this and everything else she wants to do after we put her to bed (if she wants a wee, wants a drink, wants to close her tent door and so on) she can do herself. I was in the bath at bed time tonight so it was my husband putting her to bed and she was a lot worse tonight, crying because she couldn’t find her little blanket although my husband had put it in bed with her, crying because he wouldn’t come up to close her tent door, throwing things from her bed and crying because my husband wouldn’t go up to her asap when she was shouting something and again I just lost it when she went from crying to laughing because of something and I shouted at her from the bath and said she’s not being fair and that she can go to school tomorrow because I don’t want to be with her if she’s like this (I agreed she could stay off school tomorrow because she doesn’t want to go on this school trip to a show). She was crying, I was crying, but then she stopped all of a sudden and was talking to her toys or whatever and was completely fine and I just got so upset and annoyed because she’s just playing us all the time and we never get to relax at night time because of the drama. But then of course when she’s sleeping I feel so awful that the last thing I’ve said to her has been mean. Of course I’m not like this every night, normally I always end with ‘I love you’, but didn’t last night and tonight so I feel awful.

Does anyone please have any advice on how to overcome this or do I need to just get used to is? I’ve tried an earlier bedtime and changing it up and it’s always the same. I just don’t know what things are going to be like when the baby is here so I’m not looking Forward to the drama with a little baby around.

[Flurbegurb]

Being firm is better for her - that's a really laye sleep time, is she shattered? Need to stop the cycle, yes she will get upset but she needs to be asleep earlier and understand that bedtime isn't a protracted affair. Can she read?

[Alumpyreflection]

I'm no parenting expert but it sounds like you're trying to reason/rationalise with a 5 year old. She's not going to grasp things like 'fairness' or that you're tired. Those are big concepts she can't understand. You're talking to her like she's 15 and also thinking she's deliberately trying to antagonise you. I just don't think it goes that deep when they're 5!

Why not try a reward chart, gold stars for each night she goes to sleep or plays quietly in her bed once she's had her routine? It might work but it also might just be something you have to manage until she grows out of it.

[Gem123J]

@Flurbegurb

we’ve tried 7pm bedtime in the past and 7.30 and she’s still up until almost 9pm so it doesn’t make a difference. Even if she’s had a busy day or an early start it’s always the same. She never seems to be tired.

It worked much better when I was firm, just repeated ‘it’s bedtime, go to sleep’, and it would work. But if my husband is in charge of the bedtime it’s just awful because he gives in. Just one more thing is 4 or 5 more things, so I suppose that doesn’t help. She doesn’t cry when I’m firm but she does if he doesn’t give in to her demands because I suppose she knows he will just do it. We really need to stick at it and both of us to be firm. I just don’t like to hear her cry so if she’s crying I will tell him to go to her so that’s bad on me! But tonight I’ve noticed how the cry can turn to a laugh pretty quickly so
shes obviously not really crying.

[Gem123J]

@Alumpyreflection

I'm no parenting expert but it sounds like you're trying to reason/rationalise with a 5 year old. She's not going to grasp things like 'fairness' or that you're tired. Those are big concepts she can't understand. You're talking to her like she's 15 and also thinking she's deliberately trying to antagonise you. I just don't think it goes that deep when they're 5!

Why not try a reward chart, gold stars for each night she goes to sleep or plays quietly in her bed once she's had her routine? It might work but it also might just be something you have to manage until she grows out of it.

@Alumpyreflection me telling her she wasn’t being fair is just my outburst when I just had enough. I don’t think she’s purposefully antagonising us but she is definitely testing us. We have tried a reward chart in the past for other behaviours such as point blank refusing to tidy after herself and it didn’t work then, this was not long ago but I suppose I could give it another go.

[Gem123J]

@Flurbegurb

Being firm is better for her - that's a really laye sleep time, is she shattered? Need to stop the cycle, yes she will get upset but she needs to be asleep earlier and understand that bedtime isn't a protracted affair. Can she read?

@Flurbegurb and forgot to answer your question sorry! She can read those books with short words in them but not the kind of books with stories she likes, at the moment we’re having to read the Grinch every night! But her bookcase is by her bed and she will grab some books sometimes if she’s not tired.

[Yellowcakestand]

You and DH really need to be on the the same page with this. Sounds like he isn't helping he situation as she has him wrapped around her finger a nd he needs to be as firm as you. Your DD is calling the shots here. You need to take back the parental role

[SugarNspices]

You need your husband need to be on the same page with how you parent her. You need to agree on how you are going to handle the bedtime and both agree to unite and stick with it no matter what. She is playing you up because dad's giving in to everything and she knows she get her way if she keeps at it. It's not consistent for her. She will have big changes soon when the new sibling comes so if you can tackle it now and agree to do the same thing all the better, it will be harder once anew baby I here. She will get the message and give up if you both are consistent and she realise mum and dad aren't giving in.

[mdinbc]

Try a verbal checklist with her. Do you have your teddy, you have your drink, have you done potty, etc. Then say you have all you need, and now you have to stay in bed and mummy and daddy are going downstairs and staying there. She can sing to her dolly, or read a book, but you won't be coming to check on her unless she is sick.

My granddaughter was like this at that age, and it drove her parents (and us, if she slept over) crazy. She took ages to settle, and there were times we had to let her cry, but eventually she got used to putting herself to sleep. For a time they set up some sleepy-time music for her room on a timer so she could sing along.

[Gem123J]

@Yellowcakestand & @SugarNspices

while writing the post it did click that what’s going wrong is that we’re not consistent. It’s always been that way but she was good if it was me putting her to bed, but I think perhaps because my husband has been putting her to bed more often these days when I’ve been unwell the bad habits have increased and “spilled over” to when I’m putting her to bed, although still not as bad as when he does.

I have just had a chat with him and told him we really need to be consistent and on the same page because it’s not fair on us or her. Yes she’s going to cry when he says no but like I’ve witnessed tonight, she’s a bloody good actress and the crying can be switched off very quickly on her terms!

She is definitely the boss of him and it’s slowly like she’s starting to be the boss of me and I will stop it, I have to. How though is another thing!!

[Gem123J]

@mdinbc I do that most nights although I’ll admit I need to do it every night, and my husband needs to do it too. It does work because she has nothing to ask for then because it’s all done.

She was such a good sleeper from 6 months, she would settle herself. But since about 18months old she has been waking in the night at times, I don’t mind these as much because I think it’s nightmares sometimes, but being 26 weeks pregnant it is difficult at times because this can happen once or twice a night several times a week and it’s getting difficult getting out of bed quickly as well as difficult dealing with the lack of sleep since I also work nights, so the nights I am home and get to sleep get disrupted. So with this late bed time on top of that I think that’s why I lost it tonight and snapped at her and cried myself! But I will be consistent and I will make sure my husband is too because this needs sorting before the new baby arrives!

[Labraradabrador]

As others say, strict is better for all. One of mine is like this, who genuinely struggles with falling asleep, and there needs to be a balance between freedom to wind down her own way and rules around when lights go out and she’s in bed. Our expectation is that she is in bed 7:30ish. She has some freedom to look at a book or listen to an audio story (we have a yoto player), but by 8ish it is lights out and she’s in bed with her teddy. There are consequences when she doesn’t go to bed - temporarily removing toys from her room works for us. Getting this established can take time - ours periodically will test boundaries- but most nights we are in a place where there isn’t a big argument and she is asleep by i8/8:30

[mdinbc]

It's good that you will chat with your husband and get on board together with a plan. It's amazing how the little ones can develop habits so quickly, just remember that you can undo some of those habits over the course of a week with persistence.

The night-time waking is harder because they catch you when you are most vulnerable! Lead them back to bed, tuck, kiss, then back to your bed you go. I know it's exhausting, especially when you most need your sleep. Good luck.😴

[healthadvice123]

You need to be on the same page and stick to an agreed routine
Why are you letting her miss school though because she doesn't want to go on a trip ?

[ferntwist]

It sounds like she wants a little bit more time with either of you before she falls asleep. I would try lying down beside her tent and holding her hand after lights off until she’s sleepy. Don’t chat or get up and down, keep it totally peaceful. She’ll hopefully feel more secure and won’t have to make up excuses for attention. It worked for us, I know might not for others

[Hungrycaterpillarsmummy]

The problem is your husband. You both have to be ok the same page and say no to her.
My son does the same thing but I do bedtime every sodding night and I am much more firm. We do snack then one book sitting on me then itell him to get into bed and he does go with no fuss. Then he gets a couple more books and then I say goodnight and I sit there but I do not look up of anything. If he plays up (which is rare now, I just say "No I am not getting anything else, it is time to sleep").
My husband believes what our son is saying though and I'm like banging my head against a wall saying he is playing you!! He made him a bloody cheese sandwich at 9pm a few days ago...
Husband has now realised and he has started to say No to Ds.

[Gem123J]

@healthadvice123

You need to be on the same page and stick to an agreed routine
Why are you letting her miss school though because she doesn't want to go on a trip ?

Just because it’s an hour show that’s over an hour away on a bus, as well as it being the last few days of school and there is so much coughs and colds and illnesses in her class so I’m not too bothered if she wants to miss school these last few days. Obviously when she’s older I won’t be letting her miss anything unless she’s sick or hurt. She usually goes on trips but this one I don’t mind her missing.

[Gem123J]

@ferntwist

It sounds like she wants a little bit more time with either of you before she falls asleep. I would try lying down beside her tent and holding her hand after lights off until she’s sleepy. Don’t chat or get up and down, keep it totally peaceful. She’ll hopefully feel more secure and won’t have to make up excuses for attention. It worked for us, I know might not for others

@ferntwist

As a baby she would settle herself to sleep with no issues. I have sometimes lied down with her but honestly it’s never enough for her these days! We make sure that after dinner we play with her and our phones are kept away. She definitely acts like an only child (which she obviously is at the moment!), but it’s very much all attention on her. If she’s upset or I haven’t spent much time with her then I will lie down with her for a bit but I definitely can’t be doing it every night, not when I’m working that night and when baby is here it’ll be more difficult won’t it. And I don’t think she would let my husband do that because she normally complains that he’s annoying or his breath or socks is smelly 😅but I understand where you’re coming from though.

[Miriam101]

Our 5yo also needs a lot of time to settle and doesn't go to sleep before 845/9 most nights. But she's pretty good at staying in her room. I credit her yoto with that tbh. She listens to it for ages. Would recommend something similar if you haven't got

[WishIhadacrystalball]

@Gem123J you have described my bed time experience to the letter. We have a dd too and it was like this every night for far too long. My DH works nights I’d find I’d get a handle on it and then on his nights off back to square one. He’s an amazing dad but very soft!
We ended up getting a clock one of those with the sun and moon. Unless she needs the toilet she isn’t allowed out of bed when the moon is on. She has some books, a diary and a pencil that she can use if she’s not sleepy. I would return once and if she shouted again I just responded with a very firm good night. It took a few weeks and we had cracked it. We are now nearly 2 years down the line and what a difference. I will say that we have had moments of backtrack when she’s felt scared, worried or anxious about something and it’s obviously worse at bedtime.
The books we started out with were like these:

www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Gymnast-Barbie-Random-House/dp/0385384238/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=1JBKO5ASHL0HI&amp%3Bkeywords=barbie%20first%20readers&amp%3Bqid=1671533788&amp%3Bsprefix=barbie%20first%20readers%2Caps%2C96&amp%3Bsr=8-1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

So felt like big girl books but easy for her to read. She went up levels quite quickly though so if you go down that road I wouldn’t buy too many!
We do the same with story and song but she also has an audio book each night which helped. Don’t think she liked the quiet. Good luck!

[Richtea67]

My DD went through these phases at bed. We generally had to ride it out, try to be consistent, calm and make thr whole thing really boring! In other words don't enter into the battle! She was never incentivised by sticker charts and the like We did try bedtime audio books which helped to break the pattern, then weaned off the audio books. Hope you find something that works!

[Gem123J]

@WishIhadacrystalball

thanks for the book suggestion, I’ll definitely look into those! She has lots of books but they are Dr Seuss etc. Which are way too advanced for her to read but these look good, I’ll see if I can order some before Christmas for her stocking!

We have the clock somewhere, but we used it when she was 3 so I’ll have a look for it because she’ll understand it better now won’t she and it might work.

[Gem123J]

@Richtea67

thank you. Consistency is key and we’ve all had a word this morning, husband and daughter and myself! And I’ve explained that once she’s settled and she’s had a lullaby, book, her blanket, eye mask and ear muffs (couldn’t make it up honestly! Don’t know how it started!), and she has a drink by her side and she’s had a kiss and a cuddle we are not going in to do anything (unless she’s sick or in pain of course), and anything else she needs she can do herself.

This is what I’m generally like anyway so it won’t be hard for me, and she won’t get upset and angry if I say no but it’ll be my husband who will be the biggest test. I’ll let him put her to bed tonight and I’ll sit nearby to make sure he doesn’t ruin the plan! I’m back on nights tomorrow too so I’m hoping he’ll stick to it!

[tunthebloodyalarmoff]

You just need to be firm. Look up the back to bed routine by the 3 day nanny on u tube. Once youve said good night there is no more talking whatsoever complete ignoring. She will soon get the message. Yes she is taking the piss out of you !!!

[NewMum0305]

You’ve said it yourself but absolutely when I read your post, the first thing I thought is “consistency”.

If sometimes when you daughter asks for extra books or songs, she gets them, of course she’s going to keep asking for them (I say this with kindness, not judgement!) Calm and firm from both of you is the way forward - she’ll soon get used to it. Good luck!

[Madamecastafiore]

Get an Amazon echo and let it read anymore stories after she's had her story from you. Act as though it's a huge treat and a grown up thing to have, can be a story or relaxing music that she's allowed but do not go back in. She really just needs to get a clear and consistent message that she needs to settle herself and neither you nor your husband are going to give in to her demands.