Child said she doesn’t like MIL

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So DD doesn’t want to spend any time at grand parents house anymore (especially without me) and she has said a few times not granny or otherwise just not wanting to see her. I said should we do a nice pampering day with grandma (already booked and paid) and she said she didn’t want to invite grandma because she gets so angry. I was trying to ask more and she said about a time that must have been about 6months ago (around the same time she stopped wanting to go over there) where grandma had gotten angry and shouted because she wasn’t helping. She wouldn’t tell me anymore. MIL has borderline personality disorder, depression and anxiety and has been very violent and aggressive in the past (I have never seen that, but husband has told me of some very serious incidents) I just asked her if grandma got more or less angry than I do when I get angry and she said more. DD is 5.

No more visits to Grandma.

I’m glad we now listen to children and don’t force them to hang out with unpleasant people.

I don't understand why you are letting her have unsupervised contact after that.

Ever since she has said she doesn’t want to go there she hasn’t been without one of us there as well.

I have always felt uncomfortable leaving DC with her, but feel so even more now. DH says it’s nothing to worry about and even-though he remembers the stories he has told me, he thinks she has just been firm with her. He thinks DD is just being overly sensitive. I would say this is not the first incident that has made me doubtful, but it is adding to previous events and confirmed we can’t trust her with the children. Before this she used to love going round and then it just stopped to the wall, she just suddenly stopped wanting to go, I thought it was strange because they have a kitten which is DD favourite animal.

I don’t know if I should bring this event up with FIL and ask what happened. I think he would remember that day

I wouldn’t be leaving my little 5 year old with her again. Sounds like she can’t cope too well with it and your dd has been brave enough to tell you. As her mother you need to believe your dd, take it seriously and protect her. So does your DH.

You leave your young child in the care of someone who has been violent and aggressive in the past? Why would you do that?!

Your 5yo is so terrified of her grandmother she can’t even visit the kitten or spend a pamper day with her. I don’t think you need an inquisition about how this has come about. You know she’s potentially violent. I had this when my two girls were younger. I was mostly worried about mil because of her history of using physical punishment against my oh and his siblings, this escalated to my then 2yo not acting normally around her even when she was in our own house. I’ve never felt comfortable with her around my kids, she always put me on edge but my oh insisted I was over reacting. This continued until she was 3 (and able to explain something had happened) and I left her and her 8 month old sister in her care. Even the 8 month old started screaming when having to visit Nan and grandad. I was shocked about the baby becoming scared of grandad as he always seemed lovely despite his clearly evil wife. That was until my eldest was physically able to tell me he slapped the baby when he gave her nanny’s glasses to play with (who tf gives an 8 month old baby a pair of reading glasses to play with) and she broke them. I cba to go into more detail but it turned out to be the tip of the iceberg. We’ve now not spoken to them for 8 years. Trust your instincts and your baby

Thank you. It’s nice to see other people think this too, as husband is getting very defensive asking me almost shouting what am I implying would have happened with his parents. I told him I have no idea, but I wasn’t making DD say these things, I was just asking her if she wanted to go to the spa and then I asked questions to find out more.

your 5 year old has clearly told you that she doesn't want to spend time with grandma because she is angry.

Well done her.

Why would you not listen to her?

And then the background of past violence and aggression. your dh is caught in the fog trying to minimise because otherwise he will have to face that this particular problem with his mother hasn't gone away.

come on ... children being "over sensitive". Nearly always a code for "I can't face what just happened to my child". And if your child IS "Over sensitive" why the fuck would you not respect that?

minimise visits with grandma. I wouldn't be bothered trying to talk to FIL about it. your 5 year old has said what happened - grandma with a history of violence and aggression was angry and your little daughter was scared.

“…husband is getting very defensive asking me almost shouting what am I implying would have happened with his parents.”

I would be saying very calmly and coldly that you are not implying anything. You understand his defensiveness and love for his parents but that you believe your dd and that going forward her safety and well-being is your priority. No negotiation. I’d be asking why it isn’t his priority and what he’s going to do about that.

At the end of the day, forcing a child to visit someone they don't want to be with is just cruel and mentally scarring.
I sort of get why your husband is getting so upset, as this is his mother who is being accused (in his eyes) of abusive behaviour and who wants to hear that about their parents?
However, it IS abusive by the sounds of it, not something that your DD would make up, so believe her, hear her and don't make her go back there if she doesn't want to.

It sounds like DH is minimising his DM's behaviour despite having told you otherwise. Even if MIL had never given any cause for concern previously your little DD has an issue with her which can't just be ignored. I think you need to speak to FIL to try and find out what has happened on previous visits. If DH can't/chooses not to protect DD from whatever he witnessed growing up, you need to - even if that goes against him.

You have a major DH problem. Big time

'she didn’t want to invite grandma because she gets so angry.

grandma had gotten angry and shouted because she wasn’t helping.

MIL has borderline personality disorder, depression and anxiety and has been very violent and aggressive in the past

husband has told me of some very serious incidents'

Why in the world would you even consider subjecting your poor child to this woman??

Listen to her. Protect her.

Your DD should not be made to spend time in the presence of this woman at all.

You say that your MIL has been aggressive in the past and may have a personality disorder. Why the hell are you even considering going to a spa with her and subjecting your poor little girl to her disgraceful behaviour?

You can go to the spa another day with your daughter, but without scary and abusive Grandma.

Your husband sounds like an enabler and I would be seriously re-thinking my relationship with him that he thinks it's your daughter's fault for being 'over-sensitive'. That is male code for minimising what a child/girl has gone through.

You need to listen to your child, your daughter needs to know she can come to you and you will believe her. This is extremely important in case of child abuse/sexual abuse/rape, if they think you won't listen and act then they will be too afraid to confide in you. You don't want them keeping secrets from you and too afraid you won't believe them so they keep quiet, right? You want your daughter to have a safe and open relationship with you her parents. That is so vital. So you need to allow her the voice and bodily autonomy to say when something doesn't feel right and allow her to voice that and her needs be respected. Give her the tools to feel confident to stand up for herself with the confidence she can go to you, be believed, and you will protect her. The alternative that she will feel silenced and afraid and voiceless is too horrible to even think about.

But as I said, you have a serious problem with your husband who sounds like he will dismiss your child's feelings and concerns, this will mean your daughter will be too scared to confide in her dad because she knows her dad won't have her back. Your husband is going to create a distant and strained relationship between him and daughter because he won't believe her and will put his own mother before her. This is something you really need to have a serious, earnest long talk to him about and make him know that you choose to believe your daughter, and to protect her and if he doesn't that will cause serious consequences for your marriage.

I have rearranged all my appointments so that DH can be present to look after the children so that DD doesn’t have to be with MIL.

MIL does have borderline personality disorder and goes to therapy for this. It is quite well under control which is why I have never seen her aggressive or violent, but everyone around has told me stories of how she used to get very violent. Obviously nothing has ever been reported against her because she has a DBS check and used to work with children. I have been told though that it has been towards people threatening her family rather than towards children.

She has never said or done anything abusive to DD in front of us. I have noticed anyways that DD and MIL personalities clash, MIL is very loud and constantly making noise and gives these horrible loud kisses right on the ears and DD is sensitive to noise. I think that even with this DD finds it hard to be around her.

we have never left either child on their own with MIL, FIL has also always been present. DD said this morning she likes both grandparents but she doesn’t want to be left on her own with them. She said she only wants to see them if I am there as well.

The problem is we have a holiday planned with them, and I don’t really feel like going with them anymore

You say your MIL is very loud now too. That can scare young children in itself.

I remember when I was very young there was a distant family member who spoke in a very loud, booming voice. I was scared of them for that reason. I now know that they did it because they had gone deaf in their late teens and early twenties. My three year old self certainly didn't understand that at all though and I would cling to my mother or try to hide away. I was definitely wary.

If you don't want to go on the holiday then don't. Perhaps you and DD could do something else instead. DH can go with his parents and have some alone time with them if he finds his mother's behaviour so acceptable.

A huge wave of sympathy for you, what a nightmare to have to deal with on so many levels.

Keep protecting your children, it's a fantastic thing your eldest told you what's going on and how she feels - you obviously have a great relationship there which needs nurturing.

Sadly you're going to have to have a calm conversation with your DH about MIL and FIL, your DH is probably just as upset about it as you are but super defensive too - after all these are his parents. I would be making the point that as uncomfortable as it makes him, he should be putting his children first.

The holiday sounds like a bad idea to me but if you can't get out of it one holiday is probably ok. It won't be fun and you'll be on hyper alert the whole time with the children never out of your sight let's face it but it is just one holiday. Once it's over you don't have to go again and then just keep up with the children only seeing MIL and FIL with you present. Visits to MIL and FIL could also be minimised.

Best of luck x