involve social services or not?

[rosili]

My ex and I fully co-parent my 9yo daughter. There are issues to do with neglect and alcohol at his. It's not a terrible or chaotic situation but something needs to be done. I spoke to someone from the parentline and they strongly suggested to get in touch with social services. And they said what they would probably do, was say that my daughter can't be alone with her dad, because of his drinking problem (not a raging, but rather a functioning alcoholic. It's not a chaotic situation, just one that's not right).
I don't know if that solution (her not being alone with him) would do more harm than good for her, given that she loves her dad, loves being there, they have a good relationship, etc. It would be totally confusion and hard for her, I think.

Now I'm debating whether to involve social services or not. I'd like to know what they might do, and they're not talking to me unless I give our details. I would love to have support, and welcome authorities in, if it's not with drastic measures like this...
The other option would be to talk to him and demand he addresses his sh*t, 'or else' (I will go to SS, which I would).

Anyone here been in a similar situation? What did SS do? Did you have a say in it all?
Any other thoughts?

Thank you!!

Is there Child Arrangements Order in place @rosili?

You’ve decided he’s a functioning alcoholic but say the situation is not chaotic. What are you basing this on? What is actually happening when she is there?

You say there are issues with neglect. What are they?

I spoke to someone from the parentline and they strongly suggested to get in touch with social services. And they said what they would probably do, was say that my daughter can't be alone with her dad, because of his drinking problem (not a raging, but rather a functioning alcoholic. It's not a chaotic situation, just one that's not right)

this is completely incorrect advice. If you feel she is unsafe with her father then YOU need to make the decision she stops going. Social services certainly would not say he can't have contact based on your word only, that would be inappropriate and far outside their legal and moral remit. You need to make this parenting decision and not rely on an outside agency to make it for you.

You don't need social services, you are the parent. Exercise your parental responsibility.

Many would take the view that social services is the last resort after the last resort though I doubt all of them are as awful as in Surrey. You don't say where you are based. My personal experience is that they are the last bastion of corruption in the UK, totally un-sackable and untouchable, almost akin to the 1960s James Bond and his 00 license to kill but without the glamour and moral compass. But my experience is via adult social care and nursing homes, not kids, though plenty on Twitter say they turn parents against each other and abduct kids via the corrupt and secretive family courts, which the journalist Louise Tickle tries to report on.

Then again - if there's an accident at your ex's place and your daughter is affected, the above is the wrong advice.

Can you clarify what is leading you to your diagnosis of alcoholism?

I think if you and your ex have a solid enough relationship then you ideally are best addressing this with him directly. Tell him you've noticed x y and z and be specific. Tell him how important he is in dds life but that he needs to get this under control before she becomes old enough to notice or something happens that causes a risk. Alcoholism is an awful addiction to have and I would very much go down a supportive route rather than placing any blame on him for his drinking. I would then discuss what arrangements you feel would be suitable eg. He's welcome to come visit at contact times but they happen at yours instead of his or out in public somewhere and you drive them etc. If he gets support and gets the drinking addressed then you can start to rebuild things back to normal as feels good for everyone. I would be clear with him though that as much as you want him to do well and support him dd is your priority and if you feel he isn't addressing it then you will feel like you have no choice but to seek different arrangements in contact or go through social services but you would much prefer to keep working well together as a first point. Then guague his reaction. He might get defensive and shut down completely and if he doesn't come round from that then you've no choice but to stop her contact if you feel its unsafe.

You haven't really specified that I can see what you're basing the neglect on/ how bad the Alcoholism is or why you think ss should be involved so its difficult to advise properly. What I will say is if you think dd is unsafe when she's in his care either emotionally or physically, then tell him this and don't send her. If he's been abusive towards her (including neglect) then contact ss and stop all contact until the situation is assessed by them. They probably won't take you on board unless there is immediate risk of harm to your dd, they'll put it back to family court most likely, especially if your ex is functioning sufficiently to pull things together during their assessment. So I'd try to approach it with him first unless you've clear evidence she's not safe there.

Thank you @Cw112 , for your considered response. Really helpful.
Yes, we do have a good relationship overall and I'd like to not involve social services. My plan is to speak to him (like you say, without blame, just laying out the facts and that I'm not willing anymore to keep the status quo going).
I don't think I want to say that he can't be alone with my daughter; I have a good idea of what goes on when she's at his, because we live next door to each other and we're in and out of each other's houses all the time. That's an illustration of how amicable our relationship is, and of how devastating and confusing it would be for my daughter if she couldn't be alone with him anymore all of a sudden. 50% of the time she's with him. It would really wreck things more than do good I think.

About how bad the alcoholism is: he drinks 8 pints of beer every evening, and I think he has built up a resistance against it, becuse he doesn't seem affected by that, really, from just doing this every day for years. It used to be 6 though, about 6 years back, and then 7 and now 8. I would be totally knocked out by that amount of beer but he doesn't even appear drunk. Just gets a bit more jolly. So he's not a raging alcoholic, but still it's an addiction and I think it does have impacts on him and by extension on my daughter. And it's terrible modelling, and ultimately just not safe.
He's not abusive; I think the impacts are more on the neglect side: letting my daughter watch a LOT of tv (from what I see 3, 4, 5 hours a day and sometimes even 6 and once 8!!), not washing her bedding, not cleaning the toilet, not having a working shower (for reasons I get but OI still think it's not appropriate), hoovering once every half year or so, and not giving her nutritous food (it used ot be: a chocolate croissant, crisps, freddo, banana and pizza, for dinner, now I think he gives her pasta and some veg, but still a freddo and crisps... A packet of pancakes for breakfast). Not getting her to brush her teeth, ever.

It sounds like you have some knowledge - if you have any guess of what ss would do, share your thoughts? What I would like is the outside support, because I'm so very tired of trying to get him to change and it just not happening.... So if they would come up with something that's not 'your daughter can't be alone with him', then I would actually be open to it.

Umm having the tv on all day is not neglect even for 8 hours. That's a perfectly normal weekend day for many children.

SS will not do anything about a parent that is a bit neglectful. They will tell you it is something that you need to deal with through the courts. They have huge caseloads of very neglected and avoided children to deal with. Your issues, although serious to you, wouldn't meet the threshold for a service from SS.

one option is a referral to Early Help from Children’s Services. They could support him with tackling the alcohol addiction (but only if he wants help) and offer a parenting course.

It sounds like you have some knowledge - if you have any guess of what ss would do, share your thoughts?

they will at most advise you to seek legal advice and stop contact if you think that is appropriate. They won't get involved beyond that. Social services are there to intervene when parents can't keep their children safe for any reason. You can keep her safe so it's not their role.

Not cleaning her bedding or the house isn't though

Correct, so why mention things that are not neglectful along with those that are?

Social services deal with very difficult and abusive situations. My children were in a similar situation with their dad. They didn't wash. Brush teeth hair etc he slept for hours whilst they watched tv.

for other reasons school raised a safe guarding. Social service phoned me and discussed how I can keep the children 'safe'. They also phoned him and said he needed to parent better. People are allowed to parent badly.

Could you suggest reducing contact so he sees your daughter 1 or 2 nights a week... but on those nights there would be a substantial reduction in drink? And the bedding would get washed once a week after the second night stay? Would that be a compromise so he doesn't see it as you picking holes in his lifestyle and might enable him to make some adjustments.

So, you living next door is a huge protective factor. Presumably your dc could walk to you if he passed out, or anything of that sort?

I'm not convinced ss would be interested in the mild neglect you've described. It isn't brilliant parenting, but I doubt it would meet the bar to be considered abuse.

I definitely think seeing if he will access early help is a good idea.

I assume you are 100% sure he doesn't drive with your dc after drinking? Would she be able to wake him in the night if their was an emergency? Could he get her out of the house if there was a fire? Assuming you aren't worried his drinking is to a level that would effect those sorts of things, then I think monitoring closely is the best bet.

At 9 I think your dc could definitely start having responsibility for brushing their own teeth, even if not prompted. Would you consider giving her a mobile so she could call if anything happened and she needed you?