How to get out of pull ups at night

[IceandIndigo]

My DS is almost 4, he's been completely potty trained in the daytime since he was 2 1/2. During the day he never has accidents and is capable of holding his wee for really long periods - he goes to nursery and sometimes he gets so busy playing he forgets to go all day - I know this isn't ideal and I've asked the nursery to remind him.

He's still wearing pull ups at night. There was a period a few months after starting day time training where he did have a couple of mornings where his pull up was completely dry, but after that normal service resumed and it's been full every morning.

He has recently asked to stop wearing pull ups at night, and seems to be quite upset at the idea of wearing them, so we thought we'd see how he gets on without them. We've now done 3 nights without pull ups and it was basically a disaster. We followed the 'Oh Crap Potty Training' book successfully for his initial potty training so we tried to follow her tips for night time training, which is to put a potty in their room and wake them a couple of times during the night and put them on the potty.

He did wake up and wee in his potty when prompted, but he still wet the bed, so clearly he's in the habit of doing multiple wees during the night. On Sat night we took him to the potty at 10:30pm and then when we went to take him at 2am he was already wet. We took him again at 4:30am and he was wet again at 7am when he woke up. It seems that part of his issue is he's a really deep sleeper and doesn't even wake up after he wets the bed.

I'm feeling a bit at a loss as I am struggling to deal with the sleepless nights and the multiple loads of wet laundry (we don't have a tumble dryer), but I also want to support my son who is clearly motivated to become dry at night.

I know there are people who say it's impossible to night train because it's hormonal, yet people like the lady who wrote Oh Crap say the opposite. Personally I think it's probably an oversimplification to say it's only down to hormones, because if that were the case it doesn't really make sense why some children become dry at 2 and others are still wetting the bed at 6 or 7, surely there's not that much natural variation in when they develop this hormone. The Oh Crap writer says night dryness happens naturally for some children but it's really important to train by the age of 3 1/2 if it hasn't, otherwise you miss a window of bladder development and it becomes much harder to stop bedwetting. After reading that I'm worried we've missed the window!

If anyone has been successful in taking a more proactive approach to achieving dry nights, I'd really like to hear what has worked. We are already doing the obvious things like restricting fluids in the evening. I've read about the alarms that go off when they start weeing, has anyone used those?

Also, on a practical level, what do people do to avoid having to wash bedding every day? So far we've been using a layered approach with two mattress protectors and two sheets, but I've been washing the mattress protectors every day as I don't like the thought of leaving them on the bed if they've soaked up wee.

Hormones aren't the only thing which affect night time dryness - I remember a talk by an ERIC continence nurse who said it can be possible to determine which factors are at play by seeing when the wetting happens (throughout the night, early in the night or just before waking). I can't remember all the ins and outs but the ERIC website might be helpful.

I'm very sceptical about the idea you've 'missed a window' but again, ERIC would be reassuring about that I think.

It's hormonal, look at eric there's no magic window that will leave your child Incontinant for life if you miss it!

While I’d personally leave him until he’s naturally going all night without incident, if you’re determined I think you need to try a two pronged approach for your own sanity, talking it through with your son first - he continues to wear pull ups but you’ll continue to wake him for the toilet and once he’s had 5/7/however many dry nights he can try again with no pull ups.

I have twin siblings, one dry in toddlerhood, one not until the start of secondary school. For whatever reason there is huge natural variation.

Please, please don’t restrict fluids!

eric.org.uk/advice-for-children-with-night-time-wetting/

It is more complicated than just the hormone, but it is still very normal not to be dry until later; 15% of children are still wetting at 7, and that's not because their parents didn't read the right book...

That doesn't mean you just don't bother trying at all this age though, that's a misinterpretation of the advice; though you are doing much of what ERIC suggest. They say don't lift a sleepy child though as that doesn't actually teach them anything.

But if it doesn't work at this age, it's not because you are doing it wrong, it's more likely to be a combination of the factors explained on ERIc ( hormone, bladder size, and deep sleeping). Drs won't be interested until at least 5 (DS wasn't dry until nearly 10).

I used reusable pads on bed (I bought them from amazon). They wash really well and kept bottom sheet dry.

If i remember correctly the ERIC says give it 2 weeks with no night time nappy. My eldest daughter was nearly 5 before we were successful. It took a few goes. We didn't routinely lift her but there were times we could tell she needed to go - rocking back and forward in bed and really disturbed sleep. We reduced fluid for an hour before bed but plenty throughout the day time.
There seems to be such a variation with kids. My youngest was dry overnight fell day 1.

Thanks @BobinogBobbleHat I did look at the ERIC website and it's very reassuring, although a lot of the advice on there seems to be geared towards slightly older children. I note that they do recommend a proactive approach, saying that "research shows that the vast majority of children can be night time potty trained", but they don't really give many 'how to' tips. They say to encourage day time drinking, restrict fluids 2 hours before bedtime, and get into the habit of using the toilet before bed, all of which we are already doing.

@FartOutLoudDay I'm only restricting fluids between dinner, and bedtime that seems to be standard advice, recommended by ERIC and others?

Thanks @rooella do you have a link to the bed pads you used? I think the main issue with my DS is he's such a deep sleeper, so far I haven't spotted him giving any signs that he needs to go.

If I recall correctly the 'Oh Crap' writer also says you've missed the window for daytime training if you start after 2.5 or 3? And yet most of the children I know - especially boys - weren't trained until after 3. So I would suggest you don't place too much importance on what she says.

I think the 'tips' on the ERIC site are how you get to nighttime dryness - so if he's not dry when you're encouraging water intake during the day, limiting before bed and going to the toilet before bed, you just have to wait until his body matures enough.

@Numbat2022 she says that in her experience it's easier to train before 3, not that you can't train after 3. My DS did successfully train by 2 1/2 but others have had different experiences and that's ok.

At this point I'm really just looking for some practical tips for how I can help my DS, given that he has asked to stop wearing pull-ups at night and that seems a reasonable thing to want for a child who has mastered daytime training some time ago. I told him this morning that we might have to go back to wearing pull-ups for a while and he was really upset. I found it difficult to explain it to him as obviously the reason we don't want to persevere is that without pull ups he wets the bed, but I also don't want him to feel criticised for that.

If he’s motivated you could try a bed wetting alarm, read a few threads on here, many have had success. My only reservation with it is your child’s age, I’m sure it suggests 5 and over. I used it with my 6yr old who really wanted out of pull ups and it worked very well. My 4yr old is still wet but I don’t think she’s ready to apply herself to using the alarm, I’ll wait til she seems distressed about wearing nappies and wants to do it - which may mean the right time for you. I am sure the hormone is a factor in stopping the need to wee overnight, but I think the brain is in the habit of sleeping through wees, and the alarm teaches them to wake. My child still needs to wake sometimes but no longer wets.

www.amazon.co.uk/DryEasy-Bedwetting-Control-Selectable-Vibration/dp/B00LX0OV2E/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa?crid=12FIVRC7VJTFP&keywords=bedwetting+alarm+for+children&qid=1667819725&sprefix=bedqe%2Caps%2C101&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1

@Beginningless thanks for the link and for sharing your experience.

I had heard mention of the alarms and I can see how that approach might work for a deep sleeper, but I do feel he's quite young for this level of intervention. TBH I wasn't in a rush to stop using pull-ups off except that he seems to want to do it.

Sorry but it is about hormones and it's not something you can train.

Your child will be dry at night once the hormone that is needed to wake him is produced.

If he feels too old for pull-ups you can get him to put big boy undies over the top, it might make him feel more grown up.

My DS has just turned 4 and also was getting upset about wearing a bed time nappy after he was potty trained at 2. I told him in no uncertain terms that when he’d had a whole week of no wees in his bedtime nappy he could go without one. That has literally only happened this last week but typically he’s no longer bothered about it so I’ve said when this pack of pull ups are empty there’s no more. There’s no need to rush it they will do it when they are ready.
Ive done none of the lifting him for a wee etc, he just goes for a wee before bed and then sleeps till morning.

Both my youngest and his best friend went dry at night for a while and then regressed. We both got thr same advice around it being hormonal and they both eventually were consistently dry. We used the disposable bed sheets for a while to help with washing but he got there in his own time. I think just have the conversation about needing to be dry in pull ups for a week and then try again and repeat.

I've got 4 children. The first 2 we're dry at night the same week they were dry during the day (age 2/2.5).

Next one was dry in the day at 2.5 and wasn't dry at night until almost 7.

Next one was dry in the day at 3 and is over 5 years old and still not dry at night.

The pull ups become drier until eventually some nights are totally dry. I always said that once we have 5 nights we will try without a pull up.

I spoke to the school nurse team who advised only either water or orange juice on an afternoon as blackcurrant can irritate the bladder

My dd is nearing 6 and still not dry at night. She’s been dry in the day since just before 3. Her older sister was dry at night the minute she was dry in the day so it’s strange for us to still have pull ups. I’m waiting until the summer where she can sleep with no blanket or just a sheet so we don’t ruin the duvet to try without pull ups as I think a part of it is she is too lazy in the morning to get up to go for a wee.

We’re in a similar situation. Just turned 4yo, daytime dry for ages and hasn’t wanted pull ups for a while now either. Like you I feel I should support his strong desire for this but also have a nightmare with laundry. We do lift at night but only once at 10ish, which largely works. I know the advice is not to but it’s currently the only thing making it manageable as on the nights we don’t lift he virtually always wets which is distressing and exhausting. So on a practical note, I bought these and they’ve been excellent at reducing the laundry: www.brollysheets.co.uk/collections/kids

Thanks @AutumnVibes it's good to hear about others' experiences. There seems to be various views on whether to lift them at night. Like you we're not yet at a stage where he will stay dry through the night without lifting, and it seems better to do that than have the disruption of a clothing change in the middle of the night.

It's in no one's interests for everyone to be up in the night and lifting doesn't help the issue. You might still be doing it in five years time. If he is not constipated he needs to wear a nappy (or have the bed pad and help you remove and replace in the night if this suits you) until he is dry for a week or two. If he was a little older eg 7 or so you can give the bell a go but at four it seems very early to be creating an issue.I understand that he is pressing for this but it isn't really his choice yet imo.There is no relationship between daytime dryness and night time dryness for most children.All that is happening here is that he is failing at something outside his control ;everyone is getting tired and unnecessary laundry is being done. Make a reassuring plan with him that as soon as nappy dry for a week you will try again and then end the topic if you possibly can.He is old enough to correlate wet nappy in the morning means he has peed in his sleep.I feel for your pov though.

If it’s any sort of reassurance (which obviously it isn’t much as every child is totally different) but mine is now starting to occasionally be dry through the night, even though we lift him. Sometimes he doesn’t wee when we lift him and then has no accidents in the night. Other times he’ll have a run of accidents and the laundry feels out of control. My thinking is that he’s getting there but it’s patchy and slow.
we’ve had a conversation about nappies/lifting/accidents. He didn’t want us lifting him because it disturbed his sleep. We explained the issues and suggested going into pull ups. He very strongly didn’t want that and I felt it was right to support and enable him in his ambitions. Other families and other personalities might choose differently but for us I am confident it’s the right choice. I’ve also started doing morning baths or showers rather than nighttime ones, and one of the reasons is that if there is a nighttime accident, he gets clean for the day without anything that feels out of the ordinary or punitive happening. I’m a special needs teacher and believe very much that people of all ages and abilities should be masters of their own lives wherever safe and possible and that we should put their wishes at the heart of our plans. Good luck.